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way to keep subwoofers from blowing?


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cloak559 
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Posted: April 10, 2007 at 2:20 AM / IP Logged  
Of course your customer can just reset his amp back to the marked position after he realized he screwed uphis speakers...It would be nice to have some sort of warranty tape that once removed could not be applied again. but then of course asthetics would be an issue...I guess you can never win against idiotic customers...
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Blowing up in a car accident doesnt worry me, as long as I'm putting out some major dB's when I die...
jmelton86 
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Posted: April 10, 2007 at 2:26 AM / IP Logged  

Why don't amps have some way of monitoring and self-adjusting gains? This would nearly eliminate clipping, right? I know that this way it would always be 'wide-open' but it seems someone would have tried by now.

I guess it wouldn't be worth it, though. Cost of parts, new designing, production, no to mention loss of repairs due to proper gain settings...

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DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
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Posted: April 10, 2007 at 8:25 AM / IP Logged  
I actually put a layer of clear fingernail polish over the adjustment pot so if it is moved, the polish must be broken to do it.  It becomes very obvious if the control has been adjusted.  There is a commercially available product designed for this purpose, but fingernail polish is cheaper and works fine.
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DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
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Posted: April 10, 2007 at 8:28 AM / IP Logged  
jmelton86 wrote:

Why don't amps have some way of monitoring and self-adjusting gains? This would nearly eliminate clipping, right? I know that this way it would always be 'wide-open' but it seems someone would have tried by now.

I guess it wouldn't be worth it, though. Cost of parts, new designing, production, no to mention loss of repairs due to proper gain settings...

Yes, it would be very expensive to add a circuit like that.  I believe Bang and Olafsun have something similar for their high-end self-powered home stereo speakers.

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b1kshad0w 
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Posted: April 10, 2007 at 2:47 PM / IP Logged  

Well, for starters I disagree that you couldn't stop people from blowing their woofers with a fuse. Lets say a coil can handle 500 watts with no woofer movement using dc current. 500 watts is below the level of power it takes for the speaker to reach the limits of it's excursion. If you set that baby to trip at a low enough level it's not going to fry before it trips. I'm sure some people would try to bypass this to get the max out of their woofer though. You could also use something in amplifiers that once it reached x watts it will shut off. This would not be too expensive to produce. I'm sure we could come up with something simple and cheap using a zener diode and a few other spare parts. This sounds like a fun project. Instead of just coming here saying "oh that wouldn't work" with no proof why not prove me wrong and test it out? First try say a .5 amp fuse on a subwoofer and see if you can blow it. I don't think that is possible, but I could be wrong. Although I seriously doubt that any company would make amps and subwoofer you couldn't destroy it's worth a try to get them to do so. I think people would love the sense of security and it would also give companies more incentive to improve their products.

xtremej 
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Posted: April 10, 2007 at 3:03 PM / IP Logged  

We apply a sticker over the amp settings, they are virtually impossible to re-apply after removed. It is amazing how many people try to re-stick them after "turning up the power"  way to keep subwoofers from blowing? - Page 2 -- posted image..

haemphyst 
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Posted: April 10, 2007 at 4:08 PM / IP Logged  
b1kshad0w... are you aware of HOW MUCH CURRENT is actually flowing through a loudspeaker? .5A through a 4 ohm load is only 1 watt! A 1000 watt, 4 ohm woofer would need a 15.8A fuse, to protect it! Over 22A at 2 ohms. I have actually used fuses for protecting loudspeakers, and it WILL work, but I always used a fuse rated about ½ what was necessary, and a "slow-blow" type. This will allow a good margin of error, AND be safe, with transients not blowing it, but long-term overloads taking it out appropriately...
I still maintain that a fuse would never, EVER, protect from over-excursion. You can enter the realm of over-excursion with 5 watts, in an improperly tuned enclosure. Excursion limitations are purely physical limitations, and have nothing whatsoever to do with anything electrical. An accellerometer would be necessary, hard programmed with all of the driver's parameters, with the user inputting total system Q and enclosure type, in a feedback circuit. FAR too expensive to implement for John Q. Public to be interested in such a "solution".
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
b1kshad0w 
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Posted: April 10, 2007 at 6:55 PM / IP Logged  

haemphyst wrote:
b1kshad0w... are you aware of HOW MUCH CURRENT is actually flowing through a loudspeaker? .5A through a 4 ohm load is only 1 watt! A 1000 watt, 4 ohm woofer would need a 15.8A fuse, to protect it! Over 22A at 2 ohms. I have actually used fuses for protecting loudspeakers, and it WILL work, but I always used a fuse rated about ½ what was necessary, and a "slow-blow" type. This will allow a good margin of error, AND be safe, with transients not blowing it, but long-term overloads taking it out appropriately...
I still maintain that a fuse would never, EVER, protect from over-excursion. You can enter the realm of over-excursion with 5 watts, in an improperly tuned enclosure. Excursion limitations are purely physical limitations, and have nothing whatsoever to do with anything electrical. An accellerometer would be necessary, hard programmed with all of the driver's parameters, with the user inputting total system Q and enclosure type, in a feedback circuit. FAR too expensive to implement for John Q. Public to be interested in such a "solution".

I was just trying to make a point when I said use a .5 amp fuse. You hae a point about the over excursion in poor or no enclosure. Now you have me wondering how many watts it takes with no enclosure to throw the cone (destroy the surround) without an enclosure compared to with a proper inenclosure. And couldn't you use bump plates to keep the woofer from destroying the surround? I used to have an 18" sub that had a bump plate on it. When it hit that bump plate it made a loud clapping noise. None of my newer subwoofers have had them. Do they still use them?  So what do you think about a fused sub with a bump plate? In a way it seems silly to have to put in safe guards to guard people from themselves, but that's why we make seat belt laws, a microwave automatically stops transmitting when you open the door, there are fences around electrical stations, etc. Imagine what would happen if one day god took out all safety precautions out of everything. Just something to ponder...

haemphyst 
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Posted: April 10, 2007 at 10:25 PM / IP Logged  
Blame the civil lawyers... If it weren't for those slimebags (no offense to any forum members that MIGHT be slime- I mean, civil lawyers) we wouldn't have a society afraid of leaving anything open... or available, or whatever... It all boils down to this: People should be responsible for their OWN actions, and we wouldn't HAVE "civil courts". Criminal courts would still exist, as there will always be criminals, but all of this ambulance chasing, and people suing McDonalds because they are too stupid to know that the coffee they just ordered was HOT, as it SHOULD be, and they shouldn't dump it into their LAP...
Don't get me started. Already pondered and answered, MANY times. Layers. Lawyers and unions. Never mind, NOBODY has time for THAT story.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
stevdart 
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Posted: April 10, 2007 at 10:56 PM / IP Logged  
O.J. wasn't found to be guilty until it finally went to a civil case.  Ponder that.  But otherwise I'm much in agreeance.  We, as a society, are already too regulated.
Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
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