should installers have a union?

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sedate

Silver - Posts: 1,173

Joined: July 03, 2004

Location: Colorado, United States

Posted: April 29, 2007 at 10:24 AM / IP Logged

easterly81 wrote:

I was talking about manly big box stores, sorry i guess i should have said only big box retail.

Back to the original question, you would find that box stores brutally, brutally repress unionization. You'd find a Best Buy would shutter a store instead of allowing unionized employees.

speakermasters wrote:

Most stores have resorted to black listing difficult vehicles due to law suits and unhappy customers.

I've never heard of this. What kind of cars are blacklisted these days?

"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

speakermakers

Copper - Posts: 231

Joined: January 02, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: April 29, 2007 at 11:46 PM / IP Logged

I have been installing for 14 years and in management for 6 years now at 2 different mom and pop stores. At both stores I have been contracted to do installs on black listed vehicles for big box stores. Usually this happens when a vehicle is discovered to be on the list after work has already begun, and often after they have encountered technical difficulties. Now I should clarify here that when I am contracted to do this type of work the term “black list” is not used. Instead I am usually told that the installers have made a mistake and started to work on a car that they shouldn’t have. Now I don’t know if the call to not work on a vehicle comes from the corporate offices or if it is decided at a local level, and I don’t know if only certain locations are affected. The actual term “black list” comes from other installers that I have worked with over the years that came from big box stores. One black listed vehicle that I knew of was the Cadillac CTS for head unit upgrades before the interfaces and kit was available. And that vehicle was out for a while.

There is a lot of skill and talent in the install bays of big box stores and I don’t think that there is anything wrong with working at a big box store if you like it. But it seams to me that you guys have your hands tied when it comes to some things. My beef is with the pencil pushers at the corporate offices that could care less about our industry. When they start loosing money they just jump ship. They don’t care! Not to long ago I briefly considered going to work for a BB store for a good wage and decided not to when I was told that Full time hours was not an option because that would make me eligible for benefits. I was also told that if I decided to work on a vehicle that required more time than my shift that I had to either work for free or risk getting into trouble.

I say again. Let the big box stores fall on their faces. The true specialty stores will scoop up on all of the best installers they have and enjoy the increase in business!

kassdog

Copper - Posts: 257

Joined: March 09, 2007

Location: United States

Posted: April 30, 2007 at 10:02 PM / IP Logged

Ok time for me to chime in. I think a union would be a good idea for big box stores. I dont think it would happen, just think it would be a good idea for big box stores to only hire installers after they get a certificate saying they can install. I don't mean mecp either, anyone can read a book. I have never heard of blacklisted cars. Neither of the major big box stores has such a list as it just varies from installer to installer. I don't see anything wrong with an installer saying he can't do a car. I praise it so that way he doesn't attempt and screw up the car.

speedwayaudio1

Silver - Posts: 879

Joined: March 18, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: April 30, 2007 at 10:37 PM / IP Logged

Unions are why a $10,000 car cost $20,000. They are so unskilled people who can't make it on there skills and education can make $75,000 a year screwing on lug nuts. Now I'm not saying all union employess are like this, but thats what it has come to. Back in the days of child labor and sweat shops unions served there purpose. In todays world they just make stuff cost more.

Big Dave

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easterly81

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Joined: February 02, 2006

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Posted: May 01, 2007 at 12:50 AM / IP Logged

speedwayaudio1 wrote:

In todays world they just make stuff cost more.

Thats a great thing for our industry. We need to kill free labor. I agree a union might not be the best thing, but I am a firm believer that free install is the worst thing to happen to Car Audio Install! This is what makes corporations and customers think installers are not skilled labors. Now i don't know how many times i have heard a stupid f#$*ing costumer say "oh I'll have my son do it" after i tell them they are going to need additional labor to install a head unit and rear speakers in a 93 Chevy pickup, or get angry be cause i cannot do the job on their 30 min lunch break!!! This is all do to the perception that the big box stores have created (granted that their is, was, and will always be stupid and ignorant people in this world). Bottom line I like what I do for a living im not gonna change careers, i just wish that people respect what we do! (not just custom shop but all of us)

auex

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Joined: December 23, 2002

Location: Arizona, United States

Posted: May 01, 2007 at 1:23 AM / IP Logged

If we had a union nothing would ever get done. I used to think the same thing.

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sedate

Silver - Posts: 1,173

Joined: July 03, 2004

Location: Colorado, United States

Posted: May 01, 2007 at 2:49 AM / IP Logged

speedwayaudio1 wrote:

Unions are why a $10,000 car cost $20,000.

Hmm. More precisely they are why $20,000 cars are being dumped on the market for $10,000.

easterly81 wrote:

Seriously, as a consumer, I'm barely tolerant of an industry that demands some ~40-60% of equipment cost in subsequent installation. I know everyone feels underpaid, but seriously, car audio is really wayy expensive to get straight installed. There is simply no such thing as free installation.

"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

easterly81

Member - Posts: 4

Joined: February 02, 2006

Location: United States

Posted: May 01, 2007 at 11:23 PM / IP Logged

If you want it done right you have to pay.

sarcomax

Copper - Posts: 276

Joined: November 09, 2005

Location: California, United States

Posted: May 31, 2007 at 1:53 PM / IP Logged

I started working at best buy when i was 18 about 3 months after they went from commission to non commission, and there was a store that tried to unionize. three days later after a brick was thrown through the front window and 10 or so people had their attendence records pulled they decided that union was not the way to go.

Big Dog

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Posted: May 31, 2007 at 2:41 PM / IP Logged

Unions are like the mafia.

If you don't unionize, they make sure you don't work (and maybe brake your legs).

If you don't pay the mob, they make sure you don't work (and maybe brake your legs).

Same thing.

Whether it's unions or the mob - When they decide to move in, you're done for. Might as well go to the hardware store and buy a chain and padlock.

They're money hungry and don't give a rats ass about you. But just to make sure that you get the feeling that you're getting something for your money, they'll stir up trouble every once in a while.

I worked in a shop where they had a parity comitee decide that to work in the industry you had to pay fees. When I asked him why, he said it's to assure your salary. He didn't like my response that I had never seen him when I negotiated my salary several times over a period of 7 years. He then said it's to make sure you're getting a fair salary. When I asked him what that meant he gave a number which I laughed at and thanked him for NOT negotiating my salary - it's what I made 3 years previous! - jerk!

"But what if my boss is overbearing, unfair or corrupt?" you ask. Leave. If you don't then it's your own fault. You hold your destiny in your hands. Places like this eventually get their just rewards. There are plenty of great places to work.

I protected myself and "my employer" by being self-imployed while he sub-contracted his labor to me. All legal. Thank-you very much.

Prepare your future. It wasn't the lack of stones that killed the stone age.

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should installers have a union?

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