the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
icon

winisd


Post ReplyPost New Topic
< Prev Topic Next Topic >
tdsteele 
Silver - Posts: 393
Silver spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: February 22, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: June 04, 2007 at 1:29 PM / IP Logged  
Hey Guys, I have been playing with this program trying to find the optimal enclosure size and tuning for my 12" SS RL-P 12 sub. It is currently in a 1.6 cu ft tuned to 33hz, which does do really good, but I ran into some problems with the enclosure recently and am planning on just building a new one. The tuning thing has just got me all confused when I check out the graphs. Have been modeling it using a 1.7 cu ft enclosure and have changed the tuning point from the low 20's up to 35 hz, which of course makes drastic differences in the peaks, and I have no idea what I am looking for. I know I do not want a "one note wonder" box, trying to get it leveled out. I can get a pretty flat line at 20 hz, and at 35 hz I get a 5.5 db increase at 42.6 hz. What would be the ideal goal? Thanks and hope I described this well enough.
haemphyst 
Platinum - Posts: 5,053
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 19, 2003
Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island
Posted: June 04, 2007 at 2:10 PM / IP Logged  
Stevdart wrote a sticky for this very subject... I too, am having some issues with the woofers I have chosen. I am now discovering this, but I am glad I am seeing the issues before I put saw to wood. Stevdart, please PM me!!! I have MANY questions to ask you! OK, not MANY, but a couple.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
tdsteele 
Silver - Posts: 393
Silver spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: February 22, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: June 04, 2007 at 3:35 PM / IP Logged  

Yeah I have been studying that sticky alot the past few days, plus searching other posts related to it, but my poor lil brain just isn't grasping it! I am getting a little more familair with that program though, so guess that is a good thing, I just need to understand what exactly I am looking at and what some ideal results should be. Only plan on building the box one more time! (Wasn't structurally sound enough the first time)

Ok, guess it helps if my dumb butt would have put the crossover points into the program! No wonder my graphs looked so strange. *sigh*

stevdart 
Platinum - Posts: 5,816
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: January 24, 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: June 04, 2007 at 7:37 PM / IP Logged  

tdsteele, you will need to look at several charts while you manipulate Fb.  Make sure you have entered the RMS power this sub will likely be getting at highest volume in the input power window under the signal tab.  You will want to:

  • make sure that the port opening is large enough for reduced port noise.  With rear port - air velocity chart set to feet per second, rms, keep port noise under 100 in the frequency range of 30 Hz and above.  Ideally, you should show no more than 50 ft/sec in that range.
  • watch the cone excursion.  If you are using a rumble filter with the amplifier, enter that under the EQ/Filter tab.  The high point crossover is not important to add, in this case, as this is a box for subwoofer only.  Cone excursion graph shows a colored line at Xmax, and a rise over that line indicates overexcursion.  This will change as you alter tuning frequency, power input...maybe other things.  Your goal is to keep excursion at or below that  Xmax line across the entire audio spectrum.
  • there are always tradeoffs.  The flattest response may need too large of a box, too large of a port structure, and may go into overexcursion.  Work from flattest to peakiest and find the compromise that will work for your situation.  If you are stuck with having no larger a box airspace than 1.7 cu ft, you will have to deal with that and possibly settle for some peakiness in the mid-sub region.  Avoid 3+ db peak if at all possible.
  • with low tuning you might see that the response line shows a slight dip, then a slight rise at the lowest freq before it severely drops off.  That should be okay because the vehicle's gain will fill in the "saddle".

Is it the Soundspinter sub?  Dual 2 or dual 4?  Are you building slotted port or tube?

haemphyst, I have room for mail.  Ask away, but remember, I'm more of a meat and potatoes kinda guy...not sushi and caviar.  Your system's that Ess-O-Terr-ick stuff!

Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
tdsteele 
Silver - Posts: 393
Silver spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: February 22, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: June 04, 2007 at 8:36 PM / IP Logged  
It is the Soundsplinter yes, good memory! It is a dual 2 ohm, wired to 4 ohms, 600 watts rms. I just redownloaded and installed winisd, have been having problems with it and don't think it was working correctly, or I keep doing things wrong. But I'm fixing to play with it some more and I will come back and post some of the results or questions I will end up having. At this point, I will build whatever box size it will take to get the best results I can. The first time you had recommended 1.5 @34hz, which is one the recommendations Soundsplinter gives, and it does do really good, but it does one of the things I hate, real good on some notes and practically nothing on others. Looking for a more even response if it's possible. Port wise, I have a slot port in the first box, and had been modeling with a slot again, but it doesn't really matter to me if it's a slot or tube. I will get back to ya and thanks again.
tdsteele 
Silver - Posts: 393
Silver spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: February 22, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: June 04, 2007 at 9:17 PM / IP Logged  

Ok, here is one model. 2 ft^3 @ 28 hz, slot port 1.25X12.5, 23" long. (If i go slotted it will be 12.5" wide as the box will be 14" wide). Crossover set at 100hz, subsonic set around 19hz, no idea if these are good points but this is what I typed in.

Cone excursion stays within limits. Port air velocity peaks at 64 ft/s rms @ 26.88 hz. The function magnitude graph (wish I knew how to save and post the graph on here) shows as follows to give you an idea of the curve:

-6.5 db @ 25hz

-2 db@ 30 hz

0 db @ 35 hz

+.57 db @ 40 hz

+.6 db @45 hz

+.5 db @ 50 hz

+.06 db @ 60 hz

-1.15 db @ 80 hz

So, am I on the right track or am i looking at this wrong? I'm hoping to gain alot of knowledge on this. I was always used to just buying the subs, throwing them in the manufactures suggested set-up, and going on with life, but what fun is that, especially with programs like winisd around, and with the12volt.com as well!

stevdart 
Platinum - Posts: 5,816
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: January 24, 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: June 04, 2007 at 9:30 PM / IP Logged  

EDIT:  posted as you were posting, so I'll look at what you just said.

This sub is hard to model.  You notice that WinISD will, by default, give it a tiny box and a super huge port.  The program is trying for the best Q but you can't get a real strong low end extension with this sub.  The recommendations Soundsplinter makes look like sort of a compromise...giving it a more normal-sized airspace in exchange for a smaller port, but creating a dip "saddle" in the response.  The very low end that you see in the model is all port;  the driver isn't outputting low freqs.

This sub looks like it functions on a limited scale, more SPL than SQ.  It models easier when tuning high than low, such as 1.1 cu ft tuned to 40 - 50 Hz.  It doesn't seem to like going as low as 40 Hz unless you tune high enough so that the port takes over the function of sound production at 40 Hz.

I don't know how you are getting anything that resembles flat ("I can get a pretty flat line...") .  I'm looking at a one note wonder here.  But right now, looking at it, I'm inclined more toward smaller box airspace at 1.1 cu ft, tune higher to 40 Hz, slot port 15 square inches.  Round the edges of the port slot.  Port resonance (see "first port resonance" under the vent tab) goes up mostly out of range at 345 Hz with this higher 40 Hz tuning.

EDIT:  Okay, I read your post and I'll look at it some more, but first thing I want to mention is port opening size.  While square inches is sufficient, what is wrong is that the ratio of width to heigth of the proposed slot is 10:1.  You will get more noise and less precision with this high ratio.  Keep the ratio at less that 8:1 even though it means that with a 12.5" width the slot will grow longer.

I'm not sure how you got those db numbers you listed.  They should all be on the minus side throughout the entire range.  Employing the filters brings the whole scale down.  Click your cursor on any freq along the curve and read what it says at the top right of the chart.  OR, left click and hold, then drag the white crosshairs along the curved response line.

Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
tdsteele 
Silver - Posts: 393
Silver spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: February 22, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: June 04, 2007 at 9:53 PM / IP Logged  

Ok originally when i got the pretty flat line, I had not put in the crossover points, so I assume it was looking at it like a full range. When I put in the crossover point, it had the big sweeping curve. Still figuring out how to work this program properly.

I know presently, if I put in a test tone cd, it puts out best from 30 to 50 hz, over 50hz it drops off rapidly. 20hz just makes the truck shake with little sound output.

The numbers I listed where by running the cursor along the graph and reading what it had in the upper corner, so, unless I have something wrong, I dunno.

stevdart 
Platinum - Posts: 5,816
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: January 24, 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: June 04, 2007 at 10:39 PM / IP Logged  
Check your database against this:  rlp12data.jpg   Make sure the values are correct.  They are small and hard to make out in some cases.
Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
tdsteele 
Silver - Posts: 393
Silver spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: February 22, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: June 04, 2007 at 10:57 PM / IP Logged  
There is a few that are slightly different, but very slightly. Le and Pe are at 0 on mine, so don't understand that one, and Znom on mine is 6.0 where yours is 4.0. So i guess I am doing something wrong then. But I'll be honest with you, when I look at all the letters and numbers, like a foreign language to me. I know some of it, but alot I don't, but I am reading up on it so this stuff will make better sense, hopefully someday.
Page of 2

  Printable version Printable version Post ReplyPost New Topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

  •  
Search the12volt.com
Follow the12volt.com Follow the12volt.com on Facebook
Friday, January 27, 2023 • Copyright © 1999-2023 the12volt.com, All Rights Reserved Privacy Policy & Use of Cookies
Disclaimer: *All information on this site ( the12volt.com ) is provided "as is" without any warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, including but not limited to fitness for a particular use. Any user assumes the entire risk as to the accuracy and use of this information. Please verify all wire colors and diagrams before applying any information.

Secured by Sectigo
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
Support the12volt.com
Top
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer