Passive Crossover Help

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ArKineX

Member - Posts: 22

Joined: April 24, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: February 18, 2005 at 4:46 PM / IP Logged

Hello everyone! I have a question maybe you guys can help.

I have 2 sets of the Infinity Reference Component Sets (6000CS) which are the 6 1/2" Mids with the 1" Tweets. They come with a Passive Crossover with the set. The specs from their site say that it can handle 90W RMS.

Now what I don't know if they mean that "both" speakers (the mid and the tweet) combined can handle a total of 90W RMS or each (90W RMS for the Tweet and 90W RMS for the Mid)?

The reason I need to know this is because I am wanting to replace the 6 1/2" mids with some nicer 6 1/2" mids from Audiobauhn (AMD60Q) which have 200W RMS each.

If this is the case, how would I still be able to wire these up to the Passive Crossover without blowing the Tweets and still get great sound Quality from the Tweets at high volumes?

BTW, I believe the mids on the Infinities are 4 Ohms and the new Audiobahns are 3 Ohms.

Please and suggestions and tips will help!!! Thank you!

haemphyst

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Joined: January 19, 2003

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Posted: February 18, 2005 at 4:50 PM / IP Logged

The 90 watt rating is for the SYSTEM - mid and tweeter combined, WITH the supplied crossover.

If you are thinking about changing the Infinity out for Audiobahn, you and I have VERY different ideas about what "nicer" is...

No, you cannot change the supplied woofer for a different woofer, ESPECIALLY one with a different nominal impedance.

It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

DYohn

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Posted: February 18, 2005 at 4:54 PM / IP Logged

Don't do it, for two reasons.

BeforeI get to the reasons, I'll answer your question. The power rating on a component set generally is for the system, meaning if it is used as designed with the crossover the system will handle 90 watts RMS. In your system this means the woofer and the crossover will handle 90 watts and the tweeter will handle about 10 watts. This is normal.

Now my reasons. First, never use a passive crossover designed for a specific speaker system with any other speaker. It will not work the same, especially if the speaker impedence is different. The sound could be significantly degraded and at the very least the crossover point will change.

Second, I doubt that any speaker from Audiobahn can compete sound quality wise with any speaker from Infinity. They are not in the same class, with Infinity being severeal notches higher on the quality scale. If all you are looking for is more power handling, fine, but don't expect the Audiobahn to sound nearly as good as the Infinity. Also, jumping up from 90 watts to 200 watts, assuming the speaker efficiency is the same, will net you about a 3db increase in SPL.

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stevdart

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Posted: February 18, 2005 at 4:56 PM / IP Logged

We (and I believe I can say "we") highly recommend you not replace the mids with another brand. Yes, including even Audiobahn. The reason is the crossover....and the crossover is also the reason the component set is rated for 90 watts. Crossovers are extremely driver-specific and you must use the drivers and crossover as a set. And when you change impedance, like from 4 to 3 ohm, the crossover functions at different frequencies. Which is a double no-no in your case.

For the power question, the tweeters will not take 90 watts, but you can supply 90 watts to the component set. You'll probably never in your life be in a situation where you will want to listen to a tweeter powered with 90 watts!

So, why do you believe the replacement mid is better than the mid included in the set?

Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.

ArKineX

Member - Posts: 22

Joined: April 24, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: February 18, 2005 at 5:12 PM / IP Logged

I agree with ALL of you in terms of what "nicer".

Infinity definitely has the best sound quality when compared to Audiobahn.

I meant nicer as in louder. 200W RMS is a hell of a lot louder than the 90W RMS.

I guess I'm aproaching this all wrong.

Let me explain what I'm trying to do:

I'm replacing my subs with a single Audiobahn 10" (AWES10P) 900W RMS. I currently have 2 12" Pioneer IMMP's (300W RMS Each). I'm switching these out because I want more trunk room since a dual sub box takes up a lot of room. I have a '97 Mitsubishi Mirage.

The only thing my sound lacks is good Hard hitting Mids. I have great bass and great sound clarity from the Infinity's.

I was thinking the easiest way was to replace the mids from the component set (which obviously is the wrong thing to do) with some other pair to handle a higher wattage to compliment the sound I was looking for.

So in the front I would like to keep my Infinity 6 1/2" components.

Rear Deck I would also like to keep the Infinities, but I need some thing that would be about to thump out some hard hitting mids.

And for the subs I told you already what I'm switching to.

Needs some with this setup please of guru's of car audio!!

Thank you all again for the help!

ArKineX

Member - Posts: 22

Joined: April 24, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: February 18, 2005 at 5:16 PM / IP Logged

My Current Subs are these:

Pioneer 12" TS-W304C (Non-DVC)

Picture:

DYohn

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Location: Arizona, United States

Posted: February 18, 2005 at 5:21 PM / IP Logged

ArKineX wrote:

I meant nicer as in louder. 200W RMS is a hell of a lot louder than the 90W RMS.

No, it's not. It all depends on the efficiency of the speaker. And like I said earlier, doubling amplifier power, all else being equal, will result in a 3db SPL increase. 3db is about 15% louder. 10db is twice as loud.

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ArKineX

Member - Posts: 22

Joined: April 24, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: February 18, 2005 at 5:34 PM / IP Logged

Thank you for the Reply DYohn!

I always though Total Wattage RMS = louder.

Any recommendations on how I can tackle this system config?

DYohn

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Posted: February 18, 2005 at 7:09 PM / IP Logged

More wattage = louder, often times yes, but there are many other factors to consider. What amplifier are you using - or planning to use - for the front mains?

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zipdog

Member - Posts: 11

Joined: January 13, 2005

Location: United States

Posted: February 19, 2005 at 6:45 AM / IP Logged

Ar - been through what you are trying to do.

Skip the Audiobahns. 1st of all the are 2 f'n big and won't fit. 2nd they won't sound good as mids.

I have them in my rear as mid bass crossed over @ 250hz +/- and they sound fine, but when all these folks advise against something, well figure it out. I had already bought mine so SOL.

I would (have) put something like the mb Quart 164 (pce/rce) in the rear but I tried to budget myself. They come with a crossover and will give you what you are looking for. You can make them fit.

Don't know what you got for amps - but I would cross over the Infinities at 150ish hz to keep them clean and use the passive crossover that comes with the mb Quarts.

MOst midbass do not come w/crossovers that I have found.

You could also do it passively with capacitors and coils.

Some people will advise against putting mid bass in the rear but this is my 3rd time doing it - 2 honda civics and a toyota truck - and I have been very pleased. Not a competition system but you will feel it.

BTW the 1st 2 times were done totally passive with caps and coils with 2 channels of a 4 channel amp for the fronts and rears and 2 channels for the sub.

It can be done.

Also, skip the Audiobahn sub if you didn't already buy it. You can prolly get a decent RF for the same money.

Hope this helps some.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-EacW5JasSbW/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=99000&I=049RCE164

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