2012 odyssey, remote start, d2d vs w2w

Hello,

I am about to start on my first install of a security-R/S system in a 2012 Honda Odyssey.  I have read lots and lots of the post on this board for background info to determine if it is something I want to do.  I am an avid DIYer in all areas and believe I am capable of this.  That being said, I have a few general questions after reading and studying this board and other resources.

1) I am considering a number of systems with my goal being long range, LCD remote, mainly looking for R/S, but may include security.  Any reason any of these systems are simpler to install or better in an Odyssey: Prestige SS6900/SS9000, Viper/Python/Clifford 5704/4704, Autopage RS915, or Compustar RF-2W900-FM/FT-6200-S.

2) I have read many posts warning about eBay purchases. Since if I install the system myself none of the above manufacturers will provide a warranty, why shouldn't I buy the hardware on eBay?

3) I have read that D2D can be less-reliable/less-stable/more-conflicts than W2W.  For the small amount of investment in making the W2W connections on the bench, would you recommend this over D2D?  Just to clarify, choosing W2W over D2D only affects the wiring between the brain and the bypass? The brain-to-car and bypass-to-car wiring would be indentical?

4) Should I be concerned about the brand of the bypass mod that I purchase.  Surprisingly to me, I have read/heard not such good things about the Xpresskit bypasses, but are the others (idatalink/omega, fortin, Flashlogic) similar high quality units with equal compatibility with systems listed above that I am considering, especially in W2W?

Thanks in advance for any help or opinions you have on any of the above questions.

Welcome to the 12 Volt.  As you noticed, there is a lot to know / learn with a

alarm / remote starter installation.  This site has plenty of info to assistyou.  Your questions are interesting and very valid.

1.  Any quality brand from a major manufacturer will be good.  However, they all

have their differences with strengths and weaknesses.  Decide want features you needand compare the different models to get as close as you can.  Some models havespecial programming that can only be accessed with a special programmer ( Bitwriterfor the Viper and OP-500 for the Compustar ).  These programmers make things easybut they cost about $70.

2.  EBay can be a good supply source if you pay attention to the small print.  Make

sure the unit is "new in the box" and not a re-furb.  Some sellers will even givea warranty ( from them, not the manufacturer ) and supply a minor level of techsupport. 

3.  While D2D simplifies the install, there are a lot of "gotcha's".  There are

several types of D2D communications ( DBI, ADS and Fortin ) so the bypass modulehas to match up with the R/S brain.  W2W always works and allows mixing and matchingbetween the units ( an ADS bypass with a Viper, etc ).  Making all the connectionson the bench makes it easy and keeps things neat.

4. The bypass module is another area where knowledge is the key to success.  Fortin

modules come pre-loaded with firmware and work great.  Xpresskit modules might requirea firmware flash prior to use ( via the XKLoader2, $40 ).  The ADS iDatalink Solo series modules come pre-flashed but the Multi series require firmware loading viathe ADS USB cable ( $45 ) and dealer registered access to their restricted WEB site.You can find "on-line" sellers that will flash the modules for you prior to shipmentfor a nominal fee.

All that being said, he's my 2 cents.  Either the Viper 4704 or Compustar CM6200.

The Viper has better range, the Compustar makes remote upgrading easy.  I have theBitWriter and the OP-500 programmers, so that helps with the decision.  For thebypass module, the ADS AL CA flashed with the ADS AL(DL) HA3 is a great choice, butfor the DIYer, you would need to find a seller that can flash the module and supplythe matching install guide.  The Fortin EVO-ALL is also a great choice and comes pre-loaded.  Of course, I still go W2W with the connections, can't beat a good solderjoint and heat shrink tube.

Soldering is fun!

Kreg357, thank you for your thorough and thoughtful reply.  I really appreciate your generosity with your knowledge.

I have a couple of follow up questions, if you don't mind.

1)The bitwriters that you talk about must be different from the cable/software/flashing that is done to a bypass.  I assume it is something like changing the firmware in the brain.  Are the features "accessed" by a bitwriter only available thru a bitwriter or are there other ways of accessing them?  If they are only accessible thru a BW, are they features the average joe user would want to take advantage of?   For those brands that don't use a BW, are those features typically not offered or accessed in some other way? What would be a couple of examples of BW accessible only features on a Viper 4704?

2) Got it.  I will be careful with my sellers from eBay.

3) If I choose to go with W2W, then the varieites of D2D cable termination at the brain end becomes moot. Does W2W typically result in a more reliable system over D2D, where I have read there can be data conflicts?

4) It was disappointing to hear that Omega/Flashlogic/idatalink require a login to flash. (I just tried it and I can see that is the case).  I am interested enough that I was prepared to buy the Omega flash cable and flash it myself.  Otherwise, like you say, I can find a seller that says they will flash it and hope for the best or try to find a local shop that might be willing to do it for a small fee.

Finally, have you seen a good Youtube video or otherwise on making a good solder spice joint?  After you strip (1/2 inch or so) of the existing wire, do you poke a hole thru the existing strands, insert the splice wire, wrap it and then solder?  Or do you simply twist them in parallel and then solder?  O do you even twist them at all and just lay them in parallel and then solder?

Thanks again, for all your help.

Yes, the BitWriter and the OP-500 are different from the XKLoader2 and ADS USB cables.  The BitWriter and OP-500 are only used to change the

programmable options on the Viper or Compustar units.  The ADS USB cable is also used to update the firmware on the Compustar units, if you have dealer access.  Most of the normal / common options can be changed with the units remotes.  However, using the remotes is a pain ( you are relying on horn honks, parking light blinks or antenna LED flashes ) and very time consuming.  There are some options that can only be changed with the BitWriter ( or OP-500 ).   If you look at the Vipers Install Guide, you will see where it is possible, using the BitWriter only, to lock the unit so that the remotes can no longer be used to make changes.  Some units sold on EBay came this way...

W2W always works.  It makes things more logical.  On your van, with two power sliding doors, you decide which AUX output controls each door,

etc.  Some of the Flashlogic modules are re-badged ADS modules, flashed with firmware that supports the Directed DBI D2D comm protocol, butthey work the same as the corresponding ADS module in the W2W mode.

I haven't checked on YouTube for any How To's on soldering, although I'm sure there are some out there.  I got my training a long time ago from

the military.  There are a few threads on this site with info and even a picture.  The start-up equipment costs are modest, figure about $50 for a good soldering gun, solder, Scotch Super 33+ tape, some heat shrink tube and a nice pair of wire strippers/cutters. The strip, poke, twist and solder method is very good but most of the time the poke is overkill with a tight twist and proper soldering.  Most of my butt connections are the old fashioned Western Union splice, solder and heat shrink tube.  A little practice will give you the feel for it.  The thicker gauge wires call for more heat and a careful inspection to ensure the solder flowed properly to all areas of the wires ( no "cold" solder joint ).  The auto type wireyou will be working with is braided ( not solid ) so a firm twisted mechanical connection prior to soldering works best.  Sometimes the hardestpart is access / clearance under the dash...   Also, soldering is a skill that can be used many places around the home.

I can PM you some online / internet vendors names that I have used in the past that were ethical and reliable if you have difficulty finding ones

you trust or feel comfortable with.

Soldering is fun!

Thanks again for your response.

I looked over some of the items that are set by the BW and the corresponding codes for using the remote to access them.  It does look quite complicated, but doable, especially since I won't need to do it everyday.

I have an old school Weller gun from the 60's or 70's that I already use around the house for other stuff.  It's not exactly state-of-the-art, but it should suffice for the work we are talking about.

I am getting close to making my purchases, but I will let you know if I need further help before starting the install.

When reviewing the wiring diagrams on the idatalink/omega/flashlogic sites, I noticed that, along with all of the required W2W connections (or D2D), they clearly show which additional wires need to be connected from the bypass mod (BPM) to the brain (4-wires, brake, hood, trunk and door status) and from the BPM to the canbus (4-wires) and a couple of more (1-wire ground, 1-wire headlamp, maybe).  What is not clear is which of the remaining wires on the brain need to be connected.  Clearly some of them are connected, but since the brain install manual is printed as though you are not using a BPM, it is not clear which of those wires are made redundant by the use of the BPM.

Anyway, I hope it becomes a bit more clear when I have both pieces of hardware in my hands and I start mapping all of the wires.

Thanks again.

If you don't need to change any special programming options, using a remote to program the brain can be done, it's just time consuming ( and frustrating ).

The Weller soldering gun will work fine.  I'm still using a WEN Model 199 from the late 50's.  Old Bakelite ( early plastic ) is fragile.

Some of the newer bypass module install guides show the necessary wires from the remote starter, too.   Your best bet is to download all the wiring guides you can find for your mini-van and make up a master guide, noting any conflicting info.  Then make up a R/S to bypass, R/S to van and Bypass to van cheat sheet.  Post those for member review / input with any questions / uncertainties.  Then get out the DMM for final verification and install.

Soldering is fun!

If I end up with a Compustar 6200 brain and I use a blade for my all-in-one bypass, when docked on the 6200 does the blade communicate W2W or D2D?

I have determined that I am not using a Compustar system, so an answer to the above listed question about the blade is no longer needed. 

I plan to use an Autostart 6870 system with a FLCAN programmed for my '12 Odyssey.  I am working on a connection diagram and may have some questions as I get it pulled together.

Thanks.

I now have my hardware for use in my '12 Odyssey install: Autostart security and R/S AS-6870 with a FLCAN.  Below are images of the overall wiring diagram for the Autostart brain and the '12 Ody specific FLCAN:

It looks like I can only have one image per post, so I will put the FLCAN in the next post.

Here is the FLCAN specific to the '12 Odyssey: