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kill door lock power when armed


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crosswired 
Member - Posts: 20
Member spacespace
Joined: December 07, 2003
Posted: December 16, 2003 at 2:38 AM / IP Logged  

hello. i am a newbie, and tried searching my subject to no avail.  this may be stupid/elementary, so i aploogize in advance. 

i have a 94 camaro with factory keyless and that passlock crud, along with K.E aftermarket alarm (didnt come with O.E. fobs when purchased-didnt know til i wired in the aftermarket alarm that it had factory KE).   can one install a relay to kill the power to the door lock switches when the alarm is hot?  on camaros, there is no door frame, so one could use a coathanger to push the unlock switch.  i figured just sticking a relay in (activated  from, say,  the trigger for the starter kill) would work. i wonder about the KE still working upon disarm.  doesnt the KE get all its power from the relay source (activated via the alarm lock/unlock triggers)? (could the KE work, even if O.E power was unavailable) ?   its late, and im sure this doesnt make sense, but hopefully you get what i mean.

please let me know your thoughts (or refer me elsewhere if this has been covered and i missed it). thank you all in advance.  great site.

draasch 
Gold - Posts: 2,172
Gold spacespace
Joined: February 07, 2003
Location: Florida, United States
Posted: December 16, 2003 at 8:39 AM / IP Logged  
I would just install an anlarm....if you are going to trying the relay, why not protect the whole car?????
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crosswired 
Member - Posts: 20
Member spacespace
Joined: December 07, 2003
Posted: December 16, 2003 at 2:06 PM / IP Logged  

draasch wrote:
I would just install an anlarm....if you are going to trying the relay, why not protect the whole car?????

draasch, thank you for the reply.  sorry, i guess i wasnt clear; i have installed the alarm.  whether or not any alarm is installed or not, the door lock switches remain alive when the car is off and locked, etc.  so i was thinking of adding a relay into the system to kill the power to the lock switch when the alarm is armed, so no one can use a coat hanger to pop the power lock switch. 

there is a system in, just want to try to make it better.  make sense?  thanks again for all replies.

HamiltonAudio 
Silver - Posts: 278
Silver spacespace
Joined: October 15, 2003
Posted: December 18, 2003 at 9:26 AM / IP Logged  

that car is a positive pulse doorlock system, right?  why not simply interrupt the SWITCH wires that trigger the doorlock module in the car??  find the wires (baby blue and white or black?), and run a pair of relays much like you would a starter kill.  When at rest, the doorlock wires have continuity.  when alarm is armed, the starter kill output opens the relay, opening the switch circuit and killing them.  to add reliability, use the (diode isolated) pulse from the doorlock to energize the coil as well...this way the relay will only actually open when someone tries to use the switch while armed (versus the relay flipping back and forth on each arm/disarm)....seems like a bit of a pain, but it would work.  call it "doorlock kill"  !!

b

crosswired 
Member - Posts: 20
Member spacespace
Joined: December 07, 2003
Posted: December 18, 2003 at 3:00 PM / IP Logged  

thank you very much for the info. that is what i was lookin for.  i was not sure what wires i would cut (it has rev polarity locks, IIRC, and factory keyless entry).  i have read how the rev polarity locks work, but really dont get it. 

 are you saying to basically use the existing  unlock wire i have already cut  (for my new keyless entry alarm)???? im thinking that if i use that wire,i would find my existing relay for unlock (for the alarm), and unplug the cut wire (running through 87A - the hot side of the wire from the switch).  i would run that through   87A  (and 86- as a trigger)  of a  new relay. hook85 to the neg output of the alarm.   and run a wire from 30 to 87A of the unlock relay i already have  for the alarm. the other relay (existing) for actually unlocking with KE would be closer to the locks (this new relay is upstream). 

does this  sound right?  im sorry, i am a newbie and try to pick things up as  i go. no formal experience, training, etc.  i apologize for my poor use of terminology and jargon. i try to imagine what i can based on what i know, which is not much. i understand the part about using the lock switch as a trigger (why i used the unlock trigger at 86 above), so the relay only has to switch when someone actually tries to use the switch with the alarm armed (good idea).  would i use a 4001 diode (im just now trying to understand diodes more? i understand their purpose, just not which ones are right for what application).  i have extra starter kill sockets, so id likely use one of those if that diode would work (i see no reason why not).

please let me know where i am wrong on my above schematic thinking.  or if you know an easier way to do it. if i knew how, i would have made you a diagram to illustrate this. i hope you can make sense of it. i really appreciate all of your help with this. thank you very much.

wiretapper 
Copper - Posts: 166
Copper spacespace
Joined: December 11, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: December 18, 2003 at 3:52 PM / IP Logged  
 Your system is a reverse polarity 5-wire system. Go to the pass. kick and find the keyless module.  Then find the Orange wire that goes directly to the pass. switch. This is the doorlock power lead. Wire in a relay just like a starter kill relay on this wire and your doors will become dead when armed, but will still lock and unlock with the remote.  Try it.
crosswired 
Member - Posts: 20
Member spacespace
Joined: December 07, 2003
Posted: December 18, 2003 at 6:49 PM / IP Logged  

wiretapper wrote:
 Your system is a reverse polarity 5-wire system. Go to the pass. kick and find the keyless module.  Then find the Orange wire that goes directly to the pass. switch. This is the doorlock power lead. Wire in a relay just like a starter kill relay on this wire and your doors will become dead when armed, but will still lock and unlock with the remote.  Try it.

sweet. that is what i needed to know.  so just run (for instance):

 85: 12+ constant.  

86 : neg trigger  wire from alarm for starter kill.  

30: one side of the now cut  power-to-locks wire (orange)

87A: other side of cut wire (orange).

 ive been meaning to ask this and now is a good time.  does it matter which side of the wire goes to 87A and which goes to 30 on a starter kill relay/socket?   should the "motor" side be on one or the other terminal or does it not matter (ive never seen install instructions say it matters).  

thank you all so much. i think i tried to make it much more difficult than it is. good stuff. 

auex 
Platinum - Posts: 5,041
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: December 23, 2002
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: December 18, 2003 at 8:29 PM / IP Logged  
You will have to do this for both doors if the passenger's side has a switch. A more effective way would be to wire a second relay like a starter kill into one of the motor wires for the lock (has to be lock becuase the unlock wires are different for driver's and passenger's side of the unlock because of progressive unlock, it will still work with one door if you use the unlock wire) to brake contact, if you cut this wire then the entire system doesn't work.
EDIT: One more thing, you will probably have to set your alarm to a double pusle unlock to have the alarm unlock the doors.
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wiretapper 
Copper - Posts: 166
Copper spacespace
Joined: December 11, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: December 18, 2003 at 9:17 PM / IP Logged  
Possibly. But I'd guess being that the pass. switch is the master in this car, it may just work as long as the feed for the master switch is interrupted and not any others.
Teken 
Gold - Posts: 1,492
Gold spacespace
Joined: August 04, 2002
Location: Aruba
Posted: December 18, 2003 at 9:17 PM / IP Logged  
This is alot of work, where a very simple switch could do the very same thing.
At end of the day, your vehicle is one that opens pretty quickly with a slim jim.
Under 5 seconds to be exact. I am not trying to thwart your efforts, but would suggest that there are other things that can prove alot more effective.
1. Glass: It takes less than 1 second to shatter the glass with the proper tool, which makes no noise, and glass break detection sensors do not pick up.
A: Apply 3M barrier film to prevent the impact, and deflect the entry through the window.
2. Door Mechanism: It takes less than 5 seconds to slim jim the release lever with mechanical effort. It takes less than 2 seconds with a electronic pulser.
A: Install one of the following mechanical items. Install a metal barrier from the window sill. It will costs you exactly $3.00 for some aluminum brackets and screws for both windows. Placed in the correct place, no slim jim will work.
Install a dual actuator soleniod. This is basicly a trunk release soleniod, but has two soleniods within one casing. One is pull, and the other is push. The push soleniod has metal pin, locking the other in place which cannot be released. This would like a hood lock but for your door.
3. Electrical: As the others have already stated above. There are several ways to cut off the power supply to the door switch. Consider what is the most efficient, and direct approach, with maximum gain.
If you are serious you could install a lower version of a mag lock system. But, that comes down to how much your willing to go.
At the end of the day it is about maximum output, with minimal effort . . .
Just my thoughts
Regards
EVIL Teken . . .
   
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