power, component systems

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shootist

Member - Posts: 34

Joined: February 13, 2005

Location: United States

Posted: May 09, 2005 at 9:41 PM / IP Logged

ok do component systems need different power than regular speakers? i mean do they work as one channel or still as two??

lets take the boston acoustic Z5's for example... it says 400watts RMS. does that mean 400watts x 2 channels or x 1 channel?

everyone recommends "good clean power" for boston acoustic products. are boston amps the only good clean power amps? they are quite pricey :(

has anyone heard the Z line from BA in person? im still trying to decide if i want to run just these two speakers + a sub, or 4 speakers

'92 Mustang Gt Hatchback

kfr01

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Joined: April 30, 2003

Posted: May 09, 2005 at 10:11 PM / IP Logged

1) RMS ratings are NOT requirements. For the Z5 it says 20-400w rms recommended. This is most certainly not a requirement. You do not need 400w rms for those speakers to sing. Moreover, using a 400w per channel amplifier to those components will barely ever make a difference over a 50w amplifier unless you frequently play your music at ear-harming levels.

2) Components -sometimes- require different power than coaxials. They can usually -- HANDLE -- more power, but this is a different question entirely.

3) It means 400x2. However, as I allude to above, it is probably not too worthwhile to get much more than 50x2 unless you're a fan of high SPL levels.

4) Try the fronts + a sub first, is my advice. If you want more, buy more. If you don't think you need more, you've saved yourself money and time.

5) There are a lot of amplifiers that produce clean power. Eclipse, Diamond, Memphis, Zapco, Audison, McIntosh, Xtant, Arc, etc. will all do a fine job.

Above all I want to stress that 400w is not a requirement. Most of the time you'll only be pushing the speakers 0.1w - 20w to those speakers if you listen at comfortable listening levels. Every doubling of power is a 3db increase in SPL. So, going from 200w to 400w only gains you 3db --- MAX. You only need this extra power if listening at stupid volume levels.

New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

shootist

Member - Posts: 34

Joined: February 13, 2005

Location: United States

Posted: May 10, 2005 at 10:20 PM / IP Logged

so lets say i ran them at 125 per channel... what would be the difference b/w these speakers and the pro50s... is it really worth getting the Z5's? why do they cost so much? can i suffice with just pro50s and a sub?? im looking for SQ at SPL levels to set off car alarms and i dont allow many ppl in my back seat so i dont care much for rear listening experience... hehe i dont think it should be that hard with high quality equipment... yet again thats why im here :P

thanks for the help!!!

'92 Mustang Gt Hatchback

kfr01

Gold - Posts: 2,121

Joined: April 30, 2003

Posted: May 10, 2005 at 11:24 PM / IP Logged

You need to listen to these before you buy them. Only you can make the decision to spend hundreds extra on sound quality.

On power. Just to push this point home. 125wpc can get 3db louder than 62.5wpc. 250wpc can get 3db louder than 125. Before you buy these big amplifiers for your mains you should realize how small 3db is. Also, with that kind of class a/b amplifier, you're approaching the 'you need to upgrade your alternator' area. Be prepared to drop even more money.

For you, interested primarily in SPL, I would buy some midrange components that handle a decent amount of power, and a smaller amplifier for them. 50wpc for mains should be plenty.

If you really are focused on SPL, focus your dollars on the bass system.

New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

shootist

Member - Posts: 34

Joined: February 13, 2005

Location: United States

Posted: May 10, 2005 at 11:31 PM / IP Logged

well i have heard a system of sl60 and sl95s which i fell in love with. so i figured i would go with the higher line of the same company and just work off of two speakers with a sub to fill the rear... and also i moved to the pro's because the sl60s didnt fit in my doors. im working on trying to find out if it will be easy to fit 6.5s in a 5.25s with some work done so i guess that will be the path i go now since i dont want to spend more than what i want to lol

kfr... ur the man :P

'92 Mustang Gt Hatchback

shootist

Member - Posts: 34

Joined: February 13, 2005

Location: United States

Posted: May 10, 2005 at 11:36 PM / IP Logged

if the modification to my door isnt too harsh... what do you think about sl60s powered by a rockford amp around 75x2 @ 4 ohms + a 10" G5 powered by a memphis 250W amp... would this setup more benefit from a 10 or 12" sub?? do you think i will be satisfied with this setup?

'92 Mustang Gt Hatchback

Ravendarat

Platinum - Posts: 2,806

Joined: February 23, 2004

Location: Canada

Posted: May 10, 2005 at 11:41 PM / IP Logged

I need some explanation here. You are saying that doubling power is only 3 db gain, which I have always heard. But lets do some math here. If you have 2 amps at your disposal, one is 50x2 and one is 100x2 then by all logic the bigger amp is a 3 db gain, and if I had a 200 watt amp then that would give me a 3 db gain over the 100watt amp, thats 6 db total. Sounds right so far, correct. OK now look at it this way, I have a 50x2 amp and a 200x2 amp the 200x2 amp is 4 times the power that the 50x2 amp is so now by using your same logic I have a 12db increase. Are you seeing where the flaws are in your logic yet. Now lets get real extreme. I know have a 50x2 amp and a 400x2 amp, using the first example than the 400 watt amp is 3 db louder than the 200 which is 3 db louder than the100 which is 3 db louder than the 50 for a total of 9 db. Now using the new example of a 50x2 amp and a 400x2 amp the 400x2 amp puts out 8 times the power which comes out to a 24db gain. Thats a total of 15db louder and there is now way you can tell me thats inaudible, at any level thats realistic in car audio. So really how does the math really work out and where is the starting point. I hope I didnt loose anyone here but this is one of those things that I always here told as gospil but never have I ever heard it actually explained but when ever I question it I always get "Thats just the way it is" which is a bullshhh answer. Can some clear up this little bit of magic math for me

double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer

mikew04

Copper - Posts: 52

Joined: March 16, 2004

Location: United States

Posted: May 10, 2005 at 11:56 PM / IP Logged

It is 8 times the power, but you dont multiply it by 3. It isnt linear, it is a power function. Think of it as a log graph, with db on the y axis and power on the x axis. 50 to 400w is a 9 db increase. Every time you double the power, you ADD 3 db.

50 x 2 = 100 3db

100 x 2 = 200 6db

200 x 2 = 400 9db

Ravendarat

Platinum - Posts: 2,806

Joined: February 23, 2004

Location: Canada

Posted: May 11, 2005 at 12:02 AM / IP Logged

OK, but if I am quadrupiling the power than why wouldnt I multiply 3db by 4 which = 12db

double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer

mikew04

Copper - Posts: 52

Joined: March 16, 2004

Location: United States

Posted: May 11, 2005 at 12:16 AM / IP Logged

Did a quick search, and got this equation for increase in db:

increase in db = 10*log(p2/p1)

where p1 is the reference power, p2 is the new power level, and log is log base 10.

if we plug that in, increase in db = 10*log(400/50)

increase in db = 9.03089

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