do it yourselfers

I don't know whether you're praising me or being ironic Craig but every time I see a post opening like the above two, I sigh because I know what's coming; I wish they were like Santa Claus (I'm allowed capitals, they're proper nouns).

cubanthug wrote: this goes to everyone stop helping or these first timer that is why alot of installer loosing jobs and the business going down the drain most real installers had to pay to go to school so please stop helping all the guys that want to do it themselves and don't know where to start

I have worked at many shops, and only twice have i ever worked with anyone who went to installer school.  To be honest, they were both morons, and got fired quickly.  It was later explained to me, that individuals who went to installer school were rarely hired for that reason.  The same held true at all the shops i have ever worked for.  It is easier to train someone who has a basic understanding of electronics, and thinks logically.  You can train that person very well, and due to their lack of school, they are often more willing to learn.  A person who has been to school, but never done any real installs considers themselvs an expert.  It is hard to break them of bad habbits and teach them what they think they already know.  One of these Do-It-Yourselfers is probably going to eventually get hired at a shop and be a very good installer.  Maybe only 1 out of every 100, but that is OK.  hte other guys will screw up the install and pay a shop double to fix what they messed up. 

Now, dont misunderstand what i am saying.  I am not against all school.  I reacently finished my associates degree, and am currently working towards a bachelors.  I do believe school is good for some things.  I just believe DIY hands on learning with 12V is better. 

If your cousin is such a good installer, and he will install anything for a 6 pack; why are you talking to me?

So true, my experience tells me that the best installers have some electronics knowledge plus some good DIY/hands on technique plus the ability to listen and learn.

Damn! I have qualifications. Luckily they have little to do with my knowledge.

But you might be the exception Peter in so many ways. I might well be wrong here but I'm pretty sure that Idiot, KP, Dualsport and Hotwaterwizard amongst others have had formal training in electronics.

^^^ I got my bachelors while I was installing. Great job for a full time college kid.Kevin Pierson

A rich and rewarding tradition being carried on by young Tedmund right now. I think the whole point of the first poster was slightly wrong, it's not the people who paid to go to installer school, though, it's all of us loosing money through DIYers messing up. First from them not letting us supply and fit or even fit only (preferable in these times, no stock holding), then damaging the vehicles and having to take them to the franchised dealerships to be repaired. Either way we as a trade loose out. Over here the alarm manufacturers won't even talk to you unless you work for a known company or are "known" in the trade.

Have I ever said I like this site? Alas I do NOT like qualifications - they rarely make a knowledgeable person. (But they often disguise unqualified and unworthy people!) However there are those brilliants & experts that happen to have qualifications. As was written above, it is the people that make the expert. (I discussed the same yesterday with a qualified automotive mechanic that also stated "Mechanics are bad!". We both agreed there are "amateurs" that know far better.) I know I'm repeating the above. But I want to clarify my situation and comment (which Howard grasped and confirmed - cheque is in the mail Howard!). Oh yeah - I too went back to school AFTER working. My best EVER education - working in a panel shop. (Panel beating etc.) (University - I learned TWO practical things in 4 years of theory.)

Posting as a DIYer. Why do I install my own stuff(H/U, speakers, amps, subs one remote start(Viper 5101) one remote start/alarm(Viper 5701)) Simple with the audio stuff it's easy to do, even easier now with diagrams a quick google search away. I installed a sony(old one have newer stuff now) H/U into my old 88 s10 blazer in 35 mins. 30 of that was searching the factory wires because the last owner cut the factory plugs off. It doesn't make since to me to pay a shop an hours labor to do that. Remote start/alarms I wont do again. Not because it was to hard(or all that easy) but because I want the warranty that comes with a shop install. The only hassle with that will be there are only 2 real installers and best buy here. Of those 2 only one does viper products and that place gets 50/50 reviews on installs. I'm picky I don't want T-taps used, I don't want a rats nest of unused wires and wires not being cut to fit. But what em I to do past talking to their installers on what I want done and how I want it done. Bottom line is that it is silly to pay for simple jobs I can do with out any troubles and pay for the important stuff.

afdanw wrote: I have worked at many shops, and only twice have i ever worked with anyone who went to installer school.  To be honest, they were both morons, and got fired quickly.  It was later explained to me, that individuals who went to installer school were rarely hired for that reason.

Funny thing is, a lot of places are like that. Not jsut car audio. One shop here will not hire anyone with any kind of car audio schooling. They will train you and once you got a handle one how to do it the right way they will put you through the schooling so they can keep a couple of brands on. I got my current job because I had no experience in the field. I was picked over a couple of people with some experience in the field(but with a different place).

Renswic, read my by-lines, to which I should also add "planning and preparation." In 95% of the installs, I've got everything planned and positioned as soon as I look at the vehicle.