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Ground Q/A sticky


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pimpincavy 
Silver - Posts: 880
Silver spacespace
Joined: May 20, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: December 13, 2004 at 9:08 PM / IP Logged  
Thanks Forbidden for the reply. My friend made the post, not me, and ill try to shead a little more light on the situation....The alternator whine is coming from the speakers, which are hooked up to a small 100W amp. Today he hooked up a differant set of RCA cables and made a new ground. It has fixed the problem somewhat, before it was almost unbearable to listen to the system in his car, now the alt. whine is still there, but not as predominat.
The amp is a Cummins amp, a company which I belive makes tools, so I dont really know how quality this thing is. We   opened it and took a look inside, nothing seems to be broken, fried etc. But then again neither of us are experts on amp internals.
He also regrounded his HU, no speakers are running off that though.
Should he run ground wire to the neg. termninal on the battery? Or perhaps reground the battery itself. Also, as far as I can tell the whine isnt coming from the subs.
jaxman 
Copper - Posts: 185
Copper spacespace
Joined: November 16, 2002
Location: Denmark
Posted: December 15, 2004 at 6:14 AM / IP Logged  
Well , I know this is a SUPER discussed problem , the engine noise.(Alternator wining)
The car came (bought it) with 2 amps , one for subs and one for speakers.
They were some small JBL and I decided to change witha new 5 channels that will pull speakers and subs.
As soon as I changed the amps , the engine noise came up.
The only thing I changed was the amp , same RCA wires , same ground same wire location.
Headunit is a Pioneer.
Don't want to use a ground loop isolator as will cut from the sound quality.
Any ideea why the engine noise came right after changing amp ?
I had the same problem with this amp in my older car but there I solved the problem by using a noise filter on the Battery and AC wire of the headunit.
On this car this trick does not work anymore.
I am asking again this engine noise question as on all the other posts I found regarding engine noise ,nobody replied to say if they got rid of the engine noise and what worked for them.
Thank you in advance for the tips.
Damn cold here ...Ground Q/A sticky - Page 7 -- posted image.
Poormanq45 
Silver - Posts: 597
Silver spacespace
Joined: October 27, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: December 16, 2004 at 9:08 PM / IP Logged  
Sounds like either a problem with the Amp itself, or a grounding issue.
"I had the same problem with this amp in my older car but there I solved the problem by using a noise filter on the Battery and AC wire of the headunit."
What do you mean by "Noice filter"? Could you provide a link to a similar "filter"?
Well, did you switch over the Head Unit from your older car? If so, that might be a sign that the problem is with the HU.
First, I would check all the grounds again. Take them off. Make sure that they are contacting bare metel. That is what usually fixes the problem.
Do you still get the "whining" when the engine is off?
jaxman 
Copper - Posts: 185
Copper spacespace
Joined: November 16, 2002
Location: Denmark
Posted: December 17, 2004 at 2:54 AM / IP Logged  
1. This headunit worked perfect with the other 2 amps , and with the same amp in another car.
2. The noise filter it is a simple alternator noise filter.
3. There is no whining with the engine off and also no whining if I pull out the subwoofer RCA's.
4. Tried to re-ground the amp in different places and also directly on the battery. (My battery is in the baggage room so no problem there). Same noise.
5. Tried to ground the Head Unit on the same wire and point as the amp , same problem.
6. Tried to ground the RCA's ground ... noise becomes bigger.
So , the only thing I haven't tried yet is to replace RCA cables , even if they worked fine with the other amps :(
Any OTHER suggestions ?
Damn cold here ...Ground Q/A sticky - Page 7 -- posted image.
bigboi11 
Copper - Posts: 83
Copper spacespace
Joined: December 07, 2004
Posted: December 17, 2004 at 6:59 PM / IP Logged  
If I run a new ground for my HU does it have to be shorter than 18 inches.  any advice on what to hook it up to.
forbidden 
Platinum - Posts: 5,352
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: November 01, 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posted: December 20, 2004 at 1:07 PM / IP Logged  

No the line does not "have to be shorter than 18 inches". Find a good clean metal dash support or factory bolt to attach it to.

If you change any part of a system, the amp, the cd or the vehicle, you are no longer comparing on the same level playing field, thus what may have been a silent and noise free install in the old car might turn out to be the nightmare from the depths of hell in the new car. Noise problems can be vehicle related or product related. Pioneer uses a piss poor method of isolating the ground plane in the cd player. Once you have done a coule of thousand of these cd player installs, you will no doubt have found circumstances to support this. At the same time it can also be related to the amplifier, I have seen many a bad amplifier that also caused a nosie problem.

Make some muting plugs - take an rca cable (the el cheapo type) and cut the end off of it, leving the end end and about 4" of wire. Strip the center and outer shield and wire them together, this shorts the input of the amp and now provides a muted signal. If the amp still has noise with these muting plugs installed (in as many channels as you operate it with normally), then you have an amp issue. If there is no noise, start looking at the head unit and cabling. (my bet - the cd player).

Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
Thack79 
Silver - Posts: 526
Silver spacespace
Joined: December 02, 2003
Location: Virginia, United States
Posted: December 23, 2004 at 12:50 PM / IP Logged  

Still trying to get rid of this damn ground noise. Couple questions?

I have ground noise coming from my amped speakers but not my factory speakers. So is this safe to say my deck is ok? (pioneer deck)

I have run rcas on separate sides, ground on bare metal for my deck, relay, and both amps and even added an extra ground to the battery (running out of ideas) Something i am mising or i need to test?

forbidden 
Platinum - Posts: 5,352
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: November 01, 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posted: December 23, 2004 at 6:44 PM / IP Logged  
Do a search for muting plugs and see what comes up. My bet is still the cd player.
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
larkster 
Copper - Posts: 98
Copper spacespace
Joined: October 04, 2003
Location: Canada
Posted: December 24, 2004 at 8:04 AM / IP Logged  

Help please

94 gmc truck, put pioneer avic n1 and directed extreme 1500x and 4600x upgraded the 4/6 speakers.  I have a nasty alt noise. checked the resistance between deck ground and amp ground it  is 1.1 ohm. i ran the power wire down the passanger side and the rca and speaker leads down the driver side. to try to eliminate the noise i have ran new rcas over the seats, grounded the sheild on the rcas ran a ground and power lead from the battery to the deck and a ground wire from the deck to the amp distribution ground.  i finally made some plugs like everybody was talking about and no noise.

just to make sure i did the plugs right.  attach the two wires in the rca cable together(shield and center?) and hook them to the amp inputs....right?   so that would tell me the pioneer deck has a problem?  If i had another one i would try and switch it out.

please let me know as soon as possible thanks

forbidden 
Platinum - Posts: 5,352
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: November 01, 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posted: December 24, 2004 at 12:36 PM / IP Logged  
Where have you grounded the amps to? What has been done to the factory ground wires? Do you have a cd player with 3 preouts to plug into this system (not a Pioneer either). My bet again is the Pioneer unit coupled with a piss poor ground return resistance of the GM chassis.
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
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