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cap and amps install


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AJRXtreme 
Silver - Posts: 302
Silver spacespace
Joined: June 08, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: November 30, 2004 at 6:03 PM / IP Logged  
can anyone help me out here? Thanks
03 F150 on 24's
HU:Pioneer DVD5700
Frt:MC57
Subs:(12)S12L7
Amps:(3)KX2500.1's, MC-2004
kfr01 
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Joined: April 30, 2003
Posted: November 30, 2004 at 6:18 PM / IP Logged  

haemphyst, 

While you might not be able to say, "you have 2 12"s and 2 10"s," won't the sound be slightly muddied without the help of some time delay, variable phase, eq, or some combination?  

Now, maybe I'm totally off-base - physics was more than a handful of  years ago for me and I've just recently become highly interested in audio.  But here are my concerns with different drivers in different places in the car anyway...  Please feel free to knock my thoughts down at will, I am honestly curious::::

I don't think the fact that the actual cones are larger gives me pause, rather, I am concerned with the different motors, different enclosures Q?, and locations.

1) Delay caused by different motor inductance numbers

2) Delay caused by different locations
3) Different enclosure Q's

1)  Different motors, with different inductance numbers (thanks Steven), will have different transient response characteristics.  In other words, woofer 1 will be firing slightly ahead of or behind woofer 2.  Even if located in similar positions in the vehicle, wouldn't this cause a slightly muddied sound?  Won't one woofer be settling slightly behind the other?  Won't this lead to slightly looser sound as the beginning and ends of signals will be playing supported by a single woofer rather than two?

2) Our friend AJRXtreme talks about placing his low frequency woofers in two completely different locations.  One set located very close to him, another located relatively far away.  Won't this difference cause some noticable time / phase / cancellation problems?  Now, I realize the lengths of the waves are very long.  But won't the close set arrive at our friend's ears significantly prior to the far set?  Won't this cause the same sort of muddiness or bloat that I have a hunch would happen above?

3) Different enclosure Q's.  Different motors have different T/S parameters.  Unless care is taken to match the enclosure Q's (or at least get close), won't this also cause differing transient response behavior?  One speaker might be rather tight, another boomy?  One having greater extension, the other more peak?  Cabin gain exists because the bass notes stay in the car, even though the waves are very long, won't SOME cancellation related addition and subtraction occur?

Playing pink noise or a sweep, you're right .. these considerations probably wouldn't have much effect on frequency response.  None of these considerations will probably matter to most people, especially those just interested in SPL.  However, one thing I'm slowly learning as I research speaker building more is that overall sound quality goes beyond just the frequency response graph.

Also, some of these things can be corrected for with some of the features on DSPs and some analog signal processors.  Others can be taken care of by switching the phase 180 degrees or taking care to obtain similar box Q's.  When someone comes here asking though, shouldn't we warn them that different sized woofer in different locations playing the same frequencies is probably not ideal for sound quality?  I mean, we can still tell him/her to go for it, but shouldn't they know that it isn't the recommended path for sound quality?

Again.. please comment, I'm in a learning process here and wouldn't be surprised if most of these were wrong or don't matter.  cap and amps install - Page 2 -- posted image.

New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
AJRXtreme 
Silver - Posts: 302
Silver spacespace
Joined: June 08, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: November 30, 2004 at 6:24 PM / IP Logged  
Im deff looking for sound quality.
03 F150 on 24's
HU:Pioneer DVD5700
Frt:MC57
Subs:(12)S12L7
Amps:(3)KX2500.1's, MC-2004
Ravendarat 
Platinum - Posts: 2,806
Platinum spacespace
Joined: February 23, 2004
Location: Canada
Posted: November 30, 2004 at 6:27 PM / IP Logged  
Iff you are looking for SQ than why do you feel the need to run 410's. Alot of sq vehicles run a single 12 or 10 and sound quite good. I just dont see why you need this for sq. I do see this set up creating cancelation being how far away the subs will be from each other, I dont think this is a good Idea, but thats just me.
double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer
kfr01 
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Joined: April 30, 2003
Posted: November 30, 2004 at 6:31 PM / IP Logged  

Also, don't get me wrong.  Setups with multple sized subs might not sound BAD, but my guess, for the reasons above, is that it won't be as good as it can be given the same budget. 

New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
AJRXtreme 
Silver - Posts: 302
Silver spacespace
Joined: June 08, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: November 30, 2004 at 6:39 PM / IP Logged  
Let me rephrase what i said in my last post. I want so much bass that i set off car alarms in parking lots by just driving by them. I also want to be able to hear the music clearly and loud. So i guess its a little bit of both SQ and SPL. Any recomendations to add to my system? I definitely want more bass than i have now with the 2 10's. Ive sat in the back with the bass turned up and i dont feel any bass in the back. I want my passengers in the back to be able to feel some of the bass. The front sounds awesome as far as bass goes. I just want bass in the back, but the speakers still clear and loud. Any suggestions would be nice. Thankyou
03 F150 on 24's
HU:Pioneer DVD5700
Frt:MC57
Subs:(12)S12L7
Amps:(3)KX2500.1's, MC-2004
Klapping 
Copper - Posts: 146
Copper spacespace
Joined: November 24, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: November 30, 2004 at 7:22 PM / IP Logged  
i dont think u are going to be setting off car alarms with 2 10's...
audiobass10 
Silver - Posts: 328
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Joined: October 11, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: November 30, 2004 at 7:40 PM / IP Logged  

"i dont think u are going to be setting off car alarms with 2 10's.."

That's a pretty bold statement...put a couple 10" RE XXX's and tell me you can't.  Also when trying to tell all of us what you want out of your system..use better phrases than.."I want to set off car alarms"..that just sounds like something a 13 year old kid would say after walking out of his local Best Buy with his two "hard hitting" 15" power acoustiks in his hands. Maybe tell us that you're going for SPL would be better? That's just something that aggravates me.

Dave
Pioneer Premier DEH-P660
15" Kicker CVR
Profile AP1000M
It's Loud
supradude 
Silver - Posts: 915
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Joined: September 21, 2004
Location: South Carolina, United States
Posted: November 30, 2004 at 7:41 PM / IP Logged  
If you want deep bass go with 15's. And scrap the idea of using a cap. If you need more power go with a HO alternator. 10's will never give you the kind of bass you are asking for.
'85 Toy
haemphyst 
Platinum - Posts: 5,054
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 19, 2003
Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island
Posted: November 30, 2004 at 7:52 PM / IP Logged  
I still have to come back and answer to kfr01 - he made me think quite a bit about some of my previous statements. And thanks to him for that. Supradude, as far as your blanket statement "If you want deep bass go with 15's. 10's will never give you the kind of bass you are asking for", you are VERY wrong. I have stated before about my "trading up" to an Eclipse Ti12, and about how disappointed I was in the 12's bass response - the Ti10 actually went NOTICEABLY deeper. Granted, these are very different drivers, and their alignments WERE different, but the 10 inch driver CAN go deeper than a 12 - so why can't a 10 go deeper than a 15? In a proper enclosure, ANY woofer can outperform a larger driver in an IMPROPER enclosure.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
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