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Why Does My Subwoofer Sound Delayed?


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jimmeezgolfvr6 
Silver - Posts: 258
Silver spacespace
Joined: March 10, 2002
Location: Canada
Posted: May 24, 2005 at 6:33 AM / IP Logged  
this is a common problem i've seen with people wanting big subwoofers for big sound, but neglect to pay attention to the type of music they listen to mostly. i'm going to take a wild guess that the subwoofer in question is 12" or bigger. ideally, for 12" subs, you'd want to set the low-pass filter at around 50 - 80 hz. this will make r&b music, rap, hip hop stuff sound great, but not techno. the beat of techno music tends to be fairly short and quick. the subwoofer, emitting frequencies under 80 hz, won't be able to react quick enough, because 12" and larger subs operate ideally with longer excursions and longer notes.
also, since the beat to techno music is strongest at about 100+ hz, the listener will find that the beat is not strong enough coming out of a sub set at under 80 hz. the result is you'd tend to increase your bass settings and gains, resulting in an even more pronounced time delay.
the moral of the story? try setting the lowpass cross-over at a higher frequency, turn down the bass setting, and see if there's any improvement. you may find better response from a smaller subwoofer too.
good luck!
btw, your h/u is a panasonic, not a pioneer. i'm not all that familiar with that model, but i know it's fairly high up in the model range....it wouldn't happen to have some form of sound positioning or delay features, would it?
all problems can be resolved with a hammer
AbsolutBrian 
Member - Posts: 6
Member spacespace
Joined: May 21, 2005
Posted: May 24, 2005 at 6:33 PM / IP Logged  
Thank you stevdart and jimmee for your suggestions. I will spend some more time fiddling with settings tonight or tomorrow. Also, you're right, its a panasonic, not a pioneer deck. Thinking one thing and typing another, I guess.
In a perfect world, what sort of sub would you reccommend for techno music jimmee?
jimmeezgolfvr6 
Silver - Posts: 258
Silver spacespace
Joined: March 10, 2002
Location: Canada
Posted: May 25, 2005 at 12:35 AM / IP Logged  
for techno music, the largest i would choose is 10". if available, i'd even go for an 8" subwoofer. nowadays, however, 8" subs have died out in popularity, so most manufacturers do not have much in terms of selection or quality in that size.
all problems can be resolved with a hammer
Steven Kephart 
Platinum - Posts: 1,737
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: November 06, 2003
Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: May 25, 2005 at 2:17 PM / IP Logged  

The size of the woofer has very little to do with it's "quickness".  An 18" speaker can have just as good transient response as a 10".  It all depends on the design.  Here's a great technical article on this: http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/TechPapers/WooferSpeed.pdf .  And here's a couple videos of one of our 12's playing full range: http://www.woofervids.com/displayimage.php?album=7&pos=40   http://www.woofervids.com/displayimage.php?album=7&pos=41  As you can see, the speaker has no problems playing even higher midrange frequencies. 

The upper end extention of a driver is effected mainly by it's inductance and cone break-up.  Although you shouldn't run a subwoofer above 80 Hz anyway. You should instead have a good set of front speakers that can play down that low as frequencies higher than that are directional.  I have my sub crossed over very sharply (72 dB per octave digital slope) at 79 Hz and listen to a lot of techno.  I have no problem with transient response.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

Nodestiny 
Copper - Posts: 85
Copper spacespace
Joined: May 26, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: May 26, 2005 at 12:57 PM / IP Logged  
HOLLY CRAP! 72db/oct? Why such a sharp curve?
And why a higher xover point (assuming for SQ setup)? I know you are affiliated with Adire, so I know you have access to some damn nice midbass up front... :D
Just curious, because my setup is pretty well on the sound stage and transition with a front end of 50Hz HP @ 12db/oct (though would like to go a bit higher, such as 18, maybe even 24 on this) and an 18db oct LP on the subs at 50Hz.
04 dodge neon SXT
(2) Oz Audio Matrix Elite 12"s sealed in 4 cube fiberglass enclosure, powered by HiFonics BX1605D
Oz Audio Matrix 180cs 6.5" component set power by HiFonics ZX4000
Steven Kephart 
Platinum - Posts: 1,737
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: November 06, 2003
Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: May 26, 2005 at 1:31 PM / IP Logged  

The processor is an old Sony ES XDP-4000X digital processor.  Although it blows almost every other processor away in it's precision in other area's, it is rather lacking in the crossover points provided.  Basically on the sub channel I have a choice of 36 or 72 dB per octave slopes at 78 Hz or 99 Hz.  So I have to make do.  I may change it out in the future if we ever come out with our own processors.  But with it's precision in the EQ/level setting area I should be able to make it work great anyway.  If you are curious, here's a site with the DSC software that controls it: http://www.matronics.com/4kcontrol/

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

Nodestiny 
Copper - Posts: 85
Copper spacespace
Joined: May 26, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: May 26, 2005 at 1:54 PM / IP Logged  
Ahhh, i see. Didnt phoenix gold come out with a processor/EQ like this with computer linkup?
Kind of weird hearing somebody actualy say something GOOD about Sony Mobile products :D
I know Oz Audio is going to have their new high end amps out in a few months, and it mentions computer linkup (but doesnt say what for, they wont let me in on their secrects, sadly :D).
04 dodge neon SXT
(2) Oz Audio Matrix Elite 12"s sealed in 4 cube fiberglass enclosure, powered by HiFonics BX1605D
Oz Audio Matrix 180cs 6.5" component set power by HiFonics ZX4000
Steven Kephart 
Platinum - Posts: 1,737
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: November 06, 2003
Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: May 26, 2005 at 4:29 PM / IP Logged  

Old Sony ES was probably some of the best gear on the market at the time.  Well except for maybe their $15k XES system.  It wasn't until they came out with Xplod crap and the cancellation of the ES line that they went down hill.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio 

dedlyjedly 
Copper - Posts: 94
Copper spacespace
Joined: November 17, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: May 30, 2005 at 4:44 PM / IP Logged  
true, and true.  as i'm in the process of looking for a new head unit, i often miss my cdx-c90 mobile es.  never got the processor though
MECP certified, 5yrs experience, you probably otta listen bitch!!
AbsolutBrian 
Member - Posts: 6
Member spacespace
Joined: May 21, 2005
Posted: June 01, 2005 at 1:34 AM / IP Logged  
Just an update- I got rid of the panasonic head unit and put in an Alpine 9855. My delay problems are a think of the past, and this Alpine is totally awesome! Thanks again to everyone for your help!
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