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cheating of alarm installer


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bsd1 
Copper - Posts: 62
Copper spacespace
Joined: August 01, 2006
Location: California, United States
Posted: August 04, 2006 at 2:12 PM / IP Logged  
Around 3 months ago I had a Matrix RSX3.5 installed by Audiowerk in San Jose. The total price was $565 as follows:
- RSX 3.5
- power door locks/actuators (he said $100 for 2 doors)
- power trunk
- 508D
I was very wized because they didn't ask me where to mount the responder antenna, they mounted it near the rearview mirror, and it wasn't aligned to the center at all. I actually wanted them to mount such a thing to the rear window.
They also screwed up the power trunk, my trunk can no longer close properly (can't use too much force to close it, can't slam it or so).
I originally requested Matrix RSX 10.5 because I knew for sure I hate remote start and there is no need for it. When I picked up my car they told me they installed a higher model for me for no additional charge, I was thinking that was great or so. Then they said my car needs some kind of modules to enable remote start, so they didn't activate remote start on the RSX 3.5. I said fine then, I hate remote start anyway. But I found out 3.5 comes with one LCD remote, what I wanted two remote, one LCD, and one tiny one. I then ordered the tiny remote off ebay a week later and wasn't completely happy.
The last when I was trying to get power door lock working and I screwed up the actuators, so I unplug the blue/green door harness, but I discovered something:
- H3 was plugged in the brain but all wires were electrical taped except the gray (-) hoodpin shutdown input wire just sitting freely not connecting to anything.
- H2 harness completely missing. Important?
- H4 plugged in but the other end electrical taped like H3
- Remote Start harness, the yellow (+) ignition input was connecting to, I guess 12V ignition wire
- H1, the following all electrical taped:
1) orange ground when armed output
3) WHITE/ blue (-) activation input
4) BLACK/ white (-) 200mA domelight output
6) blue (-) trunk trigger input
7) violet (+) door trigger input
I got ripped off quite obviously. Forget it, what I need to know now is that, which wire (electrical taped off) should be connect and to where, to consider a complete installation without remote start feature?
Was he trying to cheat on the labor and materials?
bbtaco 
Copper - Posts: 119
Copper spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2002
Location: Virginia, United States
Posted: August 04, 2006 at 2:29 PM / IP Logged  
Hornshockey 
Silver - Posts: 520
Silver spacespace
Joined: January 31, 2005
Location: Texas, United States
Posted: August 04, 2006 at 3:00 PM / IP Logged  

H3 harness is all remote start related inputs, not necessary in your case.  I'd imagine they left the hoodpin input out because it doubles as a shutdown for the remote start and as a trigger input for the alarm. 

H2 harness is also unnecessary, unless using the factory alarm,  or using all of your aux outputs. 

The ignition input on the remote start harness is the input for the whole system to let it know when the ignition is on, for things like ign controlled locks

The other wires in the H1 harness are pretty standard to be left taped up and unused.  Unless, of course, you requested domelight supervison, or trunk protection.

Life moves pretty fast; if you don't stop and look around once in a while; you could miss it.
Chris Luongo 
Platinum - Posts: 3,746
Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: May 21, 2002
Location: Massachusetts, United States
Posted: August 04, 2006 at 3:27 PM / IP Logged  
Sounds like they made a few mistakes, but hopefully they stand behind their work, right? Have you contacted the shop to inform them of the problems? I don't blame you for being unhappy, but at least give the shop a chance to make things right.
None of us installers are perfect, and I screw stuff up too. But I always do my best to take care of people, as long as they tell me.............it bugs me when I find out, a year later, that something doesn't work but the customer never told me about it, so I could fix it.
Anyway:
--When they installed a different unit, they should have included the extra remote as was planned. Why did you buy one on eBay? Just insist that they give you what was agreed to.
--It is standard procedure for the antenna to be mounted on the windshield, and the cable is probably not long enough to reach the back window, unless maybe it is a little car.
On some cars, the rearview mirror doesn't allow the antenna to be in the exact center. Also, if your windshield has those little black dots to keep out the sun, they are metaallic and can affect range......so the antenna should be mounted away from those.
In any event, though, if the antenna is crooked or otherwise sloppy looking, that is a shame, and it bugs me too.
Have them fix it.
--If the power doorlocks and power trunk don't work correctly, the shop should correct the problems.
Put back that plug that you undid.......if they find out that you were messing around under there, they're not going to want to touch it without charging you, and rightly so.
$100 is a very low price for two actuators....was that including the parts and the labor? I would have charged quite a bit more.
--The wiring sounds like it's all right; rarely does every single feature of the alarm get hooked up, particularly when the remote starter isn't connected.
Instead of examining the wiring, it is far easier to just check that the appropriate features work:
A. Arm the alarm, and try to start the car; does it start? It shouldn't. If the starter-kill feature doesn't work, have the shop correct it.
B. Does opening the hood and/or trunk set the alarm off?
Hood trigger is generally considered an optional, extra-cost feature for an alarm...........trunk trigger, I suppose the debate could go either way.........it also depends on whether the car has its own factory trunk pinswitch, or if a new one has to be installed.
If the trunk trigger is just a matter of hooking up a wire, they should probably consider connecting it for free to make you happy.
Mounting pinswitches would almost certainly cost extra. It is simple in theory, but ends up being a time-consuming process.
captainzab 
Silver - Posts: 606
Silver spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: February 09, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: August 04, 2006 at 3:35 PM / IP Logged  
$565 is bull because i really doubt it was an authorized seller of dei and dont provide warranty. ($2500 protected warranty thingy)
They guy was suppose to hook up all trigger. Door (obvious), hood (must if they ground the neautral safety switch), and trunk (not needed if your driving a truck, but then why get the LCD over LED)
I originally requested Matrix RSX 10.5 because I knew for sure I hate remote start and there is no need for it. When I picked up my car they told me they installed a higher model for me for no additional charge
Thats bull, the RSX 3.5 is not better, i would get the 10.5 due to all the function and it straight up cost more than the 3.5. (He clearly wasnt an authorized dealer, like Best Buy or Circuit City. He has someone that can get hook up on limited items.)
Try contacting DEI and say that the store is fraudulent in claiming it is an authorized dealer. (only those people can be charge $400+ for install and everything)
bsd1 
Copper - Posts: 62
Copper spacespace
Joined: August 01, 2006
Location: California, United States
Posted: August 04, 2006 at 4:39 PM / IP Logged  
nouseforaname wrote:
first off, what kind of vehicle is this on? did they install a trunk acuator? or did it already have power truck pop? usually the wiring from the antenna won't reach all the way to the rear window in most cars. and why did the doors not lock/unlock? you definately got ripped.
My vehicle: 95 240sx base model (without factory power door lock)
I purchased from them the optional 552T to enable trunk pop via the AUX button for around $80 installed.
I wanted to get those auto dimming+compass+temperature+map light rearview mirror, but the installed never asked me for the location to mount the antenna, now the responder antenna is in the way, I dunno what kind of double side tape or glue on the back, and how to remove it.
Regarding to the door not lock/unlock, I screwed that up last night when trying to add a switch.
nouseforaname wrote:
H2 harness is also unnecessary, unless using the factory alarm, or using all of your aux outputs.
My car doesn't have factory alarm. What does the aux output do? Is it like pushing 2 or 3 buttons simultanlously to pop the hood, honk the horn or the like?
nouseforaname wrote:
Unless, of course, you requested domelight supervison, or trunk protection.
You know, I'd assume the customers know nothing about car alarm. Of course, any such feature comes with it, customers most likely would want that to be added/enabled. I paid them $80 for 552T, they have gotta assume I want trunk protection, or do something related to the trunk.
Chris Luongo wrote:
When they installed a different unit, they should have included the extra remote as was planned. Why did you buy one on eBay?
I was just an ordinary customer who couldn't remember which model comes with which features. Before I left my car there, I did looked up and found that 10.5x suit me the best. I didn't remember the feature of 3.5x other than remote start, so I didn't know 3.5x comes with just one 2-way responder remote. In fact, 10.5x comes with one 2-way responder remote and one 4-button remote.
I didn't want to spend extra on eBay but I planned on using the 4-button remote 90% of the time.
Chris Luongo wrote:
the cable is probably not long enough to reach the back window
Is there a chart you can look it up for 95 240sx? Or is the antenna cable extendable?
Chris Luongo wrote:
On some cars, the rearview mirror doesn't allow the antenna to be in the exact center
But that wasn't the case for my car, there are plenty of space, but somehow they just didn't mount it center. Around 3 inches to the left is way too obvious and it looked too sloppy. They said once its mounted, can't remove it without risking to break it.
Chris Luongo wrote:
If the power doorlocks and power trunk don't work correctly, the shop should correct the problems
Regarding to the trunk, I took my car back to the shop, they said that's how trunk works, what can I argue? I took it back because my trunk popped while driving. Now, everytime I close the trunk, I have to use my hand try to pop it and make sure it's locked, paid $80 for more by-hand works.
They charged $100 for the audiovox and another nonbrand actuators installed.
So does my car need to get pinswitch in order to enable trunk trigger? How about the hood. Which DEI model are they? Is it difficult to DIY?
captainzab wrote:
$565 is bull because i really doubt it was an authorized seller of dei and dont provide warranty
This store has been in business for over 15 years, I guess they are authorized seller. Here's the link: http://www.audiowerk.com/
So after reading my reply, please comment using your professional alarm installer skills and judgement, tell me which wire or feature that's not currently hooked up should have the store or DIY if simple, to get it right, as if you were installing this alarm to your very own car.
BTW, I'll be adding 507M, piezo siren 513T and 520T, if that matters your decision.
One more thing, should BROWN horn(-) 200mA output of H4 be hooked up as standard? I plan to DIY a train horn into my car, should be triggered via relay with ground pulse. Can this brown wire be connected to blast the train horn when necessary?
captainzab 
Silver - Posts: 606
Silver spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: February 09, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: August 04, 2006 at 8:54 PM / IP Logged  
My car doesn't have factory alarm. What does the aux output do? Is it like pushing 2 or 3 buttons simultanlously to pop the hood, honk the horn or the like?
Yea, thats what those aux channel is for. You can also do windows up/down, or use a relay to turn on your headlight for 30sec.
Is there a chart you can look it up for 95 240sx? Or is the antenna cable extendable?
Mounted in the back window instead of the front?
But that wasn't the case for my car, there are plenty of space, but somehow they just didn't mount it center. Around 3 inches to the left is way too obvious and it looked too sloppy. They said once its mounted, can't remove it without risking to break it.
Thats a ly about breakig it. Its just double sided tape. use a knife and while pulling the antenna cut the tape. Then clean off the rest of the tape and use some quality 3m tape to remount antenna.
Regarding to the trunk, I took my car back to the shop, they said that's how trunk works, what can I argue? I took it back because my trunk popped while driving. Now, everytime I close the trunk, I have to use my hand try to pop it and make sure it's locked, paid $80 for more by-hand works.
They clearly messed up the wiring for the trunk pop. Check the relay so that it looks like
85- channel 2 (the RED / whire wire from alarm)
86 & 87- 12v
30- output to the trunk release thingy
They charged $100 for the audiovox and another nonbrand actuators installed.
Crazy stuff.
So does my car need to get pinswitch in order to enable trunk trigger? How about the hood. Which DEI model are they? Is it difficult to DIY?
So does my car need to get pinswitch in order to enable trunk trigger? How about the hood. Which DEI model are they? Is it difficult to DIY?
The hood wire is a thin grey wire, your alarm should have included a hood pin switch.
This store has been in business for over 15 years, I guess they are authorized seller. Here's the link: http://www.audiowerk.com/
Still call DEI and complain about them being unauthorized (even if they are, its okay).
BTW, I'll be adding 507M, piezo siren 513T and 520T, if that matters your decision.
Do that yourself. Order your parts somewhere cheap. People here cna help you wire it up.
One more thing, should BROWN horn(-) 200mA output of H4 be hooked up as standard? I plan to DIY a train horn into my car, should be triggered via relay with ground pulse. Can this brown wire be connected to blast the train horn when necessary?
You can do that. read your install guide to find more info about it.
Ravendarat 
Platinum - Posts: 2,806
Platinum spacespace
Joined: February 23, 2004
Location: Canada
Posted: August 04, 2006 at 9:21 PM / IP Logged  

There is no chart for antenna length but if I had to guess, and they installed the brain properly its very unlikely it would reach. Properly installed in the center on the front is probally the best you can hope for. The Aux outputs are generally for things like window roll up and down and things of that nature. All these are definatly extra features you pay for. Since its a combo unit there would have been a hood pin in the box and should have been installed as part of the standard install IMO. Starter kill is a per shop basis. Some place install it for free with the unit others charge. Same with trunk pin, some include it some dont. You cant assume they would know you want it done just becuase you are getting trunk release done, but it should have been presented to you.

As for adding the train horn, the brown wire is a positive trigger wire for the siren so you would need to set up your relay for positive trigger not negative.

double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer
bsd1 
Copper - Posts: 62
Copper spacespace
Joined: August 01, 2006
Location: California, United States
Posted: August 04, 2006 at 11:50 PM / IP Logged  
Oh man, I definitely need to get my H2 harness back first, then I will inform DEI regarding audiowerk being unprofessional and ripping off customers.
Yes, I'd like to relocate the antenna to the top or bottom in the center position of the rear window. I don't care if i lose up to 20% of reception, but placing the antenna in the front really gets in the way. Even placing sun shade on the windshield I had to be really careful not to break the antenna.
About the relay for trunk pop, the wiring is fine. They just messed up the rod or spring or something mechanical, not electrical related. Since they insisted that's how power trunk works, I have to live with it. There's no way to spend another $50 or so to have another shop or person to fix it.
Ravendarat, the brain wasn't even installed properly. They use cable tie (fine with me) but it's very loose, the brain sits on top of the kick panel. All it takes for the brain to drop out is to remove the fuse cover. It only takes around 30 seconds for someone clueless like me to cut off all the harness from the brain.
The 3 relays (trunk,unlock,lock) did screwed in to somewhere securely.
The brown wire I was referring to one of the two wires from H4 harness, not H1.
Since the brain is so easily accessible, I plan to relocate it to one of the following locations:
1) the front of headlining
2) passenger airbag compartment
My car doesn't have factory sunroof, so the front of the headling, without the sunroof switches and bracket, has plenty of space to fit the brain plus 3 relays. What I worry is if this location gets too high temperature in hot summer, and that could damage the brain. I just dunno if the roof can absorb most of the heat or not.
Since I installed aftermarket steering wheel, that airbag is useless and gone. So long as one of the air bags is missing, the entire SRS just won't function any longer. So I took out the whole system, the passenger airbag, the sensor and the airbag harness. That said, there is alot of room there to mount 513T and 520T as well as two amps. If at all possible, I prefer to mount the brain on headling and keep it away from amps.
bazzgazm 
Copper - Posts: 113
Copper spacespace
Joined: June 06, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: August 05, 2006 at 8:42 AM / IP Logged  

Honestly. you sound like you're complaining about stuff you don't understand.

alot of wires in alarms are not used on every install, Understand what they do before you complain about it.

lastly. Alarms do not prevent theft in any way shape or form. They do DETER people from stealing hence the term theft deterent device... it'll keep most people honest.

relocating your brain to your headliner sounds like some real trouble just waiting to happen. I agree that wires should be fairly concealed and the brain out of reach for the average person but it sounds like you expected custom work on a budget price which unfortunately doesn't happen.

i had a friend of mine who i really liked one time.. where i did some crazy locations and oddball setups but as far as basic labor prices go it usually states something like "brain out of sight, zip tied and wires loomed/taped to look like factory harnesses"

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