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cheating of alarm installer


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captainzab 
Silver - Posts: 606
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Joined: February 09, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: August 05, 2006 at 10:35 AM / IP Logged  
He was cheated, because when he dropped it off he asked for the Clifford 10.5x but they went ahead and installed the 3.5 claiming it is better (they didnt even hook up remote start part)
And they didnt even hook up his trunk pop correctly. And for them to say that that is how it works instead of fixing it is bull.
Note: You Always Dont Get What You Pay For.
xtremej 
Gold - Posts: 1,440
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Joined: February 24, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: August 05, 2006 at 10:53 AM / IP Logged  

If you wanted a 10.5 than you should not accept a 3.5 period. As far as add on features all shops vary on what they include, but if they are professionals they would discuss this with the customer and find out what features the customer would like to have installed. As far as the workmanship that is different from shop to shop, some installers are by the theory that if it works who cares how it looks. Which is true but, I don't subscribe to this theory as I feel it is a direct representation of the business and the installers work ethic. As far a reporting them to dei, good luck its a maze just to talk to tech support. And to be quite honest I don't think they'll do much. There is a shop about 45 mile from me that turns out poor quality work on a regular basis and they continue to carry viper. As far as the price goes it really doesn't matter what was paid if the shop agredd to install a 10.5, with trunk relese, power locks/keyless and so on. If they under bid to bad, if they over bid it to bad for you. I don't like when any shop dictates the quality on a install for what price was paid.  Last but not least I would go this shop and request to speak with manager or owner and stay level head to work out a resolution. I am sure that something can be worked out maybe a  partial refund or they agree to repair the problems stated. Sorry about bouncing around topic a little trying to type fast and eat:)

Chris Luongo 
Platinum - Posts: 3,746
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Joined: May 21, 2002
Location: Massachusetts, United States
Posted: August 05, 2006 at 11:40 AM / IP Logged  
There is a difference between paying too much, and being ripped off.
Example: $8 for a beer at a fancy bar is overpriced, but it's not a ripoff if you receive your beer, since you did agree to the price.
And if the bartender took your money and got busy and forgot to serve you, hopefully you would bring it to his attention before calling him a thief.
Okay, here it is about your car:
---If you and the shop agreed to a particular product, and they gave you something different, that isn't cool...........they should give you whatever it takes to make things equal, such as the extra remote.
---A typical, basic install generally has the alarm brain and its wiring neatly and carefully affixed to the car, not falling down on your feet, etcetera.
Buring all the components and making them near-impossible for a thief to find, is very time-consuming and nearly always costs extra.
If the shop were smart, they would have offered to hide everything for an additional charge, and made more money.
---I doubt it really matters if they're an authorized dealer or not. And there are no rules or laws to prevent them from charging as much as they want.......just like the $8 beer.
---The idea of your trunk lid not operating smoothly after having the solenoid installed is completely bull. Tell them they either make it right, or they remove it and refund your money.
Again, I make mistakes at work too, and putting motors into doors and trunks is often tricky and difficult......but if they're not trying to make you happy, that isn't cool.
---About the antenna. I don't think there's any kind of chart for where to mount it. And again, as others have said, it would also depend on where the brain is mounted.
Regardless, it was sloppy of them to not mount it centered and neatly. I haven't seen your windshield, but I fully believe you that they just slapped it up there wherever.
Again, they did something sloppy, and they should make it right. Yeah, I suppose they could damage the antenna if they don't remove it carefully......but that's THEIR problem. They're the ones who decided not to mount it neatly.
Besides, if something does happen to the antenna, they can probably just swap it out as defective anyway.
---Trunkpins, hoodpins, dome supervision, and so forth: Just because the alarm has many features, they still require labor to install..........it's up to you and the shop to agree on what features will be connected, and that's naturally going to affect the price.
OVERALL OPINION:
---They did a few things sloppily and lazily. That's forgiveable, except when you went there to get it corrected, they told you to take a hike.
That's not right, and you should insist that they fix it. If you are only talking to your installer, go around him and speak with the manager or owner.
If the manager tells you to take a hike, see if your credit-card company can help you.
---All this stuff about hoodpins and whatnot......yeah, sure, maybe some of it should cost extra.
But a good salesperson should know the difference between a soccer mom who basically just cares about keyless entry and an insurance discount for her minivan............and a guy with an older, cool, sporty car looking for serious protection.
They should have realized the type of customer you are, and explained the entire install, feature by feature, and told you what you would or wouldn't be getting. It's a shame they didn't.
If I were the shop manager, at this point, I would consider giving you one or two extra features for free to make you happy.
So again, if you don't mind me saying my opinion, you are asking for a LOT of stuff for a regular install.........but at the same time, they did a few things wrong, and you did spend a lot of money and buy extras.........the shop really should try to answer at least some of your concerns.......if they won't, it isn't good.
kgerry 
Platinum - Posts: 3,455
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Joined: February 07, 2004
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posted: August 05, 2006 at 11:54 AM / IP Logged  

first - captainzab - please do not be rude and hijack someone else's thread... this person posted asking for options and help for HIS problem, not YOURS!!

second - bsd1 - Chris really summed it up for you... there are some definitive differences between the 10.5 and the 3.5 and if you are unhappy with them then ask them to order the 10.5 and replace it for the model you thought you were getting when you dropped your car off.... as Chris mentioned it is rather uncool of a dealer to bait and switch you only because they found they had no stock and didnt want to risk losing a sale.... aside from that it is a little uncool of you to be ripping through their wiring trying to psycho-analyze whether they did a good wiring job or not... as already mentioned to you, many features on many models are unused.. and extras are - well - EXTRA....

i wouldnt say you were cheated, but i would say you have some legitimate concerns that should be addressed by this dealer in their hopes of keeping you as a customer... you have a valid point about the 10.5 coming with a companion remote, and the 3.5 not... tell them to give you a 3.5 1-way companion remote or swap the unit for the unit you thought you were paying for... on the flip side, the 3.5 does have superior range to the 10.5 so that is actually a little bit of a bonus for you.... also, if you feel that the brain could have been tied up better then bring that up, but keep in mind no normal installer would have put the brain up in your headliner without being specifically asked to and paid extra to....(that would actually be a bit of a wiring nightmare)

i would say just go in calmly, ask for the manager and go over your concerns.. and remember - you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar!!   explain to them that you really wanted the 10.5 for these reasons that the 3.5 doesnt provide  and since they took it upon themselves to swap models on you ask them to reinstall what you thought you were getting....  it's all about compromise and remaining calm....  i am a technician/installer/shop owner myself and i can tell you that it is easy to help someone who is calm, but if you came in here calling me incompetant or a crook i would want to get you out of the store as fast as possible too.....

Kevin Gerry
Certified Electronics Technician
MECP First Class Installer
Owner/Installer
Classic Car Audio
since 1979
KarTuneMan 
Platinum - Posts: 7,056
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: December 14, 2004
Location: Isle Of Man
Posted: August 05, 2006 at 1:07 PM / IP Logged  
Maybe consider printing out the last 2 pages off this site to take as referance....tell the"boss" you want to get back on the 12volt and tell THOUSANDS of readers, and members that you were taken care of PROFESSIONALLY, and courteously. You want to spread "the good news" about their shop.
Fastlearner 
Silver - Posts: 346
Silver spacespace
Joined: March 23, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: August 05, 2006 at 4:02 PM / IP Logged  
thank god you didn't come to my shop cause the minute you started to complain about the stuff your complaining about I would have gone in your car taken out everything and said have a nice day. It doesn't sound like you got ripped off. Sure they did a little things wrong, but then again you did some stuff too like disconnecting something on the alarm. How do you know that you didn't cause something else to go wrong. I always inform my customers not to touch anything under any circumstance and to conctact me first regarding any problems they have with my car. I had one customer come in saying that the remote start we installed in his car three years ago burnt out his starter. So all this your complaing your doing is for nothing. Just take it back there but since you messed it up they may not do anything.
bsd1 
Copper - Posts: 62
Copper spacespace
Joined: August 01, 2006
Location: California, United States
Posted: August 06, 2006 at 7:30 AM / IP Logged  
bazzgazm wrote:
Honestly. you sound like you're complaining about stuff you don't understand.
Honestly if you put yourself in my perspective, you can't deny the fact that I was totally unhappy and completely wized off.
1) the 1-way remote I paid off ebay for afterward
2) the antenna not being centered
3) the power trunk is worse off then before
bazzgazm wrote:
alot of wires in alarms are not used on every install. Understand what they do before you complain about it
Not used when they are lazy. Domelight, I don't care. But trunk trigger and horn output and starer kill, a must! The H2 harness I really see it optional, but they have gotta provide me with that in case I need to enable something in the future. In fact, I really need channel 4 and 5 outputs from H2 very soon.
bazzgazm wrote:
it sounds like you expected custom work on a budget price
Please don't read my previous message partially. I never said I want anyone else to do those relocation, I said DIY.
captainzab wrote:
he asked for the Clifford 10.5x but they went ahead and installed the 3.5 claiming it is better
I didn't really care 3.5 or 10.5, I care the extra 1-way remote, period. In fact, I thought 3.5 was better because of the remote start feature. Never thought that a higher model has one fewer remote.
captainzab wrote:
And for them to say that that is how it works instead of fixing it is bull
I already give up on them. They don't seem to have the talent to fix it anyhow. Someday when I fully understand the trunk release mechanism I will try to fix it myself.
xtremej wrote:
If you wanted a 10.5 than you should not accept a 3.5 period
I didn't really accept it but the manager insisted 3.5 a higher model and cost $100 more and all misrepresentation he told me. Beside, the installation was already completed by that time. Tell them to remove everything and keep my $200 deposit?
xtremej wrote:
As far as the workmanship that is different from shop to shop
I fully buy this. I am not trying to blame them but myself for choosing the wrong shop.
xtremej wrote:
Last but not least I would go this shop and request to speak with manager or owner and stay level head to work out a resolution
I've been talking to that person, the owner, calmly so far because I was afraid they charge extra for this and that.
xtremej wrote:
maybe a partial refund or they agree to repair the problems stated
After the 2nd time I took my car back there for the trunk problem, I gave up on them. I didn't think they are capable to put my trunk back to the previous working state anyway.
Chris Luongo wrote:
basic install generally has the alarm brain and its wiring neatly and carefully affixed to the car, not falling down on your feet, etc
Neatly or not, I really don't care. I didn't expect everyone's bedroom is as clean as mine. If mine gets messy and have someone to clean it, that isn't free. So I don't mind to clean up their left over mess for my own comfort.
Chris Luongo wrote:
I haven't seen your windshield, but I fully believe you that they just slapped it up there wherever
I should take a pic of that tomorrow and let everyone sees it.
Chris Luongo wrote:
it's up to you and the shop to agree on what features will be connected, and that's naturally going to affect the price..you are asking for a LOT of stuff for a regular install
You say, spending $565 on car alarm is not a lot of money and 3.5X is average or above average alarm? They didn't discuss those with me at all. Just because I didn't remind them, therefore they have the excuse to be lazy? If I knew all the features and which does what, I'd install it myself.
Asking for a lot? Just trunk trigger and horn output and starer kill. Like I said, brain and antenna relocation, I don't trust them anymore even they offer to do it for free. The relocation takes time, and quite costly for labor, I knew that. With patient and all that, DIY is the best.
kgerry wrote:
it is a little uncool of you to be ripping through their wiring trying to psycho-analyze whether they did a good wiring job or not
I didn't mean to analyze their wiring job. While DIY adding a door lock switch, I removed the fuse cover and brain just dropped off right in front of my face. Without knowing how they wired it up, how can I DIY to add/enable features?
kgerry wrote:
many features on many models are unused.. and extras are - well - EXTRA
If it was a cheap alarm, I'd not expect them to enable any extra features, if there are on cheap alarms. But since everyone's taste may vary, I have no complain on that and I will just DIY to add/enable features.
kgerry wrote:
it's all about compromise and remaining calm
I've been calm to them at least till now. But too late is too late, they held my deposit, on the very first day after the install, it was already too late.
Some of you really misunderstand my points.
1) I got ripped off, I admitted it, so face it and live with it. I no longer care since my 2nd trip there for trunk problem.
2) Work ethic standard or guideline on car alarm install, is there really such a thing? I don't care. I chose the wrong shop, I blame myself.
Please note, I am not referring to the wires not being wired, but the trunk problem and sloppy antenna mounting. They are liable on troubles they caused.
3) Don't even think that I'm trying to tell the whole world that alarm installers are all evil then you are trying to defend the people from the same industry.
4) What I've decided to do: I don't want that shop to TOUCH my car anymore, I don't trust their sloppy works any longer. I want to DIY (or get someone else if I can't handle) to enable additional features and do the brain+antenna relocation. I will go to that shop tomorrow and get my H2 harness back which they stole from me. Yeah right H2 harness not needed/used, so they keep it?
5) Please read the very last paragraph on my very first post of this thread. You see, no complaining in the very place. I just wanted to complete the install myself plus some additional features, and asking for everyone's opinion which feature would you consider a must, a standard, or optional. Keep saying some are extras without specifying explicitly which feature doesn't help at all.
JWorm 
Platinum - Posts: 2,208
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Joined: December 11, 2002
Location: New Hampshire, United States
Posted: August 06, 2006 at 11:38 AM / IP Logged  
The reason shops keep harnesses that aren't used is in case someone came back in the future and wanted to add something that wasn't originally done. Most places have a bin with a bunch of extra harnesses.
I guarantee 99% of customers would come back without the harness if they were coming back to add some feature. They would have either thrown it away, or it is somewhere at there house. If the shop had given away all the harnesses, they would then have to make up something or take one out of a new unit.
Sounds like you got a hack install by a hack shop. You've realized that, and I'm sure you won't make the same mistake in the future.
Mounting the alarm brain in the headliner is not realistic. Either is mounting the antenna in the rear window. The wire is not long enough, and it should not be extended.
I would have hooked up the trunk pin wire. They already had to run wires back to the trunk to add the trunk release solenoid. Running one more wire would have taken minumal time. If you are going to add this, the wire is red. The red wire is located in a harness at the left trunk hinge.
The car may have a factory hood pin wire. It would be yellow/black at the factory anti-theft module (if equiped). The anti-theft module is located just above the hood release cable in the drivers kick panel.
The 3.5x does not come with a second remote to keep the cost down. The units are already expensive enough with only 1 remote. The 10.5 comes with less expensive remotes, so DEI decided to include 2 remotes.
bsd1 
Copper - Posts: 62
Copper spacespace
Joined: August 01, 2006
Location: California, United States
Posted: August 07, 2006 at 1:21 AM / IP Logged  
JWorm wrote:
The reason shops keep harnesses that aren't used is in case someone came back in the future and wanted to add something that wasn't originally done.
At the shop standpoint, yup, that's how you keep or tie up with a customer, make them to have next to no choice but to come back for additional addons, of course with a charge.
At my standpoint, they silently took something away from my property without my consent/knowledge. Even H2 wasn't needed/used at the time of the install, I bet you, if they ask me or any other customers, we'd say we want to have procession of our own stuffs. Hopefully you folks agree with me on this and should not steal customers' stuffs.
JWorm wrote:
Mounting the alarm brain in the headliner is not realistic. Either is mounting the antenna in the rear window. The wire is not long enough, and it should not be extended.
If the brain is up inside the headliner, the antenna should then be long enough to reach the rear window. I know it's unrealistic, that's why relocation like this must be DIY.
JWorm wrote:
The red wire is located in a harness at the left trunk hinge.
Today I found two (black and red) wires located at that location. So that red one should be the wire?
Anyhow, I went to the shop (very calmly) and asked the boss for my H2 harness, got it and left the shop within a minute or two.
I also took a pic (as shown below) of the antenna mounting positon so the ones who thought I was lying can have a look and make your own call. Remember, you might not think it's a big deal, but don't do this to your customers or they would be very unhappy like me.cheating of alarm installer - Page 2 -- posted image.
Fastlearner 
Silver - Posts: 346
Silver spacespace
Joined: March 23, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: August 07, 2006 at 1:25 AM / IP Logged  
what the hell is wrong with that. Its a little to the left but maybe the wire couldn't be reached. I think showing that picture will bring a new doodieload of bash to you. Why are you complaining about that. Because its a little to the left, no biggie, works the same.
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