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reduced sq with lower impedance?


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zhalverson 
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Posted: April 25, 2007 at 11:52 PM / IP Logged  

So i've been trying to find out if this really makes a difference or not?  How much noticeable difference would you expect with a 1 ohm load vs. 4 ohms with subwoofers.  I was starting to think it would be substantial from some posts on this site until i read this thread ( http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8218 ) from another site that is usually pretty good.

I am wondering this because right now i have 2 soundsplinter rl-p15's at 1 ohm on a crossfire vr1000d and am curious how much it would affect the sq if I got a different/another amp and ran them at a higher load.

sedate 
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Posted: April 26, 2007 at 12:19 AM / IP Logged  

zhalverson wrote:
How much noticeable difference would you expect with a 1 ohm load vs. 4 ohms with subwoofers. 

Noticeable difference?  None.  The difference would be detectable in the numbers..  the amplifier would get hotter and the THD would increase a bit.. really any amp would behave this way..  but these are not going to be a listenable, detectable difference with insturments as sloppy as human ears.

I agree completely with that thread you posted.

That sub/amp combo looks *great* ... if I recall crossfire makes some beasty amplifiers and soundsplinter has a good reputation, if a *really stupid* brand name.

"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
haemphyst 
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Posted: April 26, 2007 at 9:47 AM / IP Logged  
IMPO, Yes. Lower impedance directly and dramatically affects the damping factor of an amplifier, (in some peoples opinions) the most important factor in bass reproduction.
Lower damping factor makes bass "sloppy"... Not good. When running WFO, like so many amplifiers do in cars, especially sub amplifiers, damping is even more critical.
Again, just my opinion, but I do know that I have heard differences in subwoofer systems, with the only observed specification being damping factor.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
custom audio ny 
Copper - Posts: 176
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Posted: April 26, 2007 at 11:52 AM / IP Logged  
I would tend to agree with haemphyst. If you do any research into damping factor you will find that even small variances..such as dealing with the resistance of the speaker wire..do have a measurable effect, at least on paper... particularly with larger speakers, such as a subwoofer. It would only stand to reason that the better the ability of an amp to control the speakers movement, the better the sq.
Custom Audio
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sedate 
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Posted: April 26, 2007 at 4:43 PM / IP Logged  

custom audio ny wrote:
you will find that even small variances..such as dealing with the resistance of the speaker wire..do have a measurable effect, at least on paper

You said it yourself,

do have a measurable effect, at least on paper

"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
zhalverson 
Copper - Posts: 180
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Posted: April 26, 2007 at 6:19 PM / IP Logged  
Well since there are different opinions on this one I did a little researching.  I found this article http://www.diyspeakers.net/Articles/Richard%20Pierce%20DAMPING%20FACTOR.pdf which suggests that damping factor has very little effect on the sound of a system and especially not a audibly noticeable difference.  Pretty convincing to me...
custom audio ny 
Copper - Posts: 176
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Posted: April 26, 2007 at 6:36 PM / IP Logged  

The "on paper" was in regards to the resistance in the speaker wire..I have not personally done any sq tests with different ga wire..and I would HIGHLY doubt a "by ear" difference in that case..however..you would expect there to be a substantial difference comparing a 4ohm load with a 1 ohm load. (assuming all equipment is within it's safe rating)

http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz/mdampingfactor.html 

This article states that a 10% difference in damping factor is quite noticable. Since I have not conducted any experiments on my own in this area..judging by what I have read on links here..and my own research..I come to this conclusion...  It depends on where you clicked to get the answer..lol

Custom Audio
Lynbrook NY
ASE/MECP master certified
sedate 
Silver - Posts: 1,173
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Posted: April 27, 2007 at 12:04 AM / IP Logged  

custom audio ny wrote:
It depends on where you clicked to get the answer

Well put. reduced sq with lower impedance? -- posted image.

custom audio ny wrote:
however..you would expect there to be a substantial difference comparing a 4ohm load with a 1 ohm load

Just thinking about it here, I betcha this would depend *heavily* on the actual amplifier in question.. 

zhalverson wrote:
I found this article http://www.diyspeakers.net/Articles/Richard%20Pierce%20DAMPING%20FACTOR.pdf 

Good link I look forward to digesting that.

"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
zhalverson 
Copper - Posts: 180
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Posted: April 27, 2007 at 12:28 AM / IP Logged  
hmm, seems the only way to really know is to be able to wire it up and find out.  that might be out of the question though because i don't have the money to buy three more amps to give the same power at 4 ohms.
Steven Kephart 
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Posted: April 27, 2007 at 2:21 AM / IP Logged  

Richard Clark had quite the thread about damping factor on his forum several years back, and his conclusions were that any damping factor over 20 is inaudible.  I once asked Dan Wiggins what he thought about it and he seemed to agree. 

I'm not liking that Marantz paper linked above.  It does explains damping factor well.  But it seems to skirt around the idea of how damping factor effects "speaker control".  All they describe in their examples is the amplifier being driven to it's limits due to the load.  I don't see anywhere where they explain how the output impedance directly is limiting the output current. 

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