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fused 12 volt connections?


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hawks 
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Location: Washington, United States
Posted: April 11, 2010 at 2:53 PM / IP Logged  

I have a basic question I wanted to hear some opinions on from the pros here.

When connecting a relay or low drawing sensor or something along those lines is it okay to tap into a power source (that is already fused) powering another part of your system say like the headlight switch, door locks, window switches or something along those lines.  And, if it is okay would you need to use a fuse where you have spliced into the power source even though it is already fused at it's main power connection.  For example tapping into the power in the door lock wiring to power door lock relays or the headlight switch to power domelight supervision or window wiring to power window modules etc..

Or, should you fuse and run wires to the battery for every relay and sensor seperatley?

Rod

t&t tech 
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Posted: April 11, 2010 at 4:39 PM / IP Logged  

Whenever I add a conection to an oem wire i always fuse it at a lower rating than the oem circuit! The only way I would not fuse an added on component is when i'm replacing the factory unit completely, Example a oem power power lock module that went bad, i would remove the old one entirely but i would re-use all oem connections that would have been fused for that specific circuit, so no need to  be redundant, simply because the new circuit would be replicating the old defective one!

commit your way to jehovah and he will act in your behalf. psalms 37:5
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
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Posted: April 11, 2010 at 4:45 PM / IP Logged  
Use an un-fused cable such as the fuse box power supply or an ignition feed constant if this isn't fused at the battery. ALWAYS separately fuse whatever you're supplying.
hawks 
Member - Posts: 41
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Joined: November 30, 2009
Location: Washington, United States
Posted: April 11, 2010 at 5:34 PM / IP Logged  

So you would fuse even remote start power connections where you tap into vehicle wiring because I could swear that I saw a post on here some where that said not to fuse those connections.

t&t tech 
Platinum - Posts: 2,608
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Posted: April 11, 2010 at 6:01 PM / IP Logged  
Nope! I don't fuse these! I use my discretion! You'll have to use yours also!
commit your way to jehovah and he will act in your behalf. psalms 37:5
hawks 
Member - Posts: 41
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Joined: November 30, 2009
Location: Washington, United States
Posted: April 12, 2010 at 12:52 AM / IP Logged  

I have to ask because I am now curious.  Why would you fuse other tapped power connections but not the remote starter tapped power connection.

oldspark 
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Posted: April 12, 2010 at 2:15 AM / IP Logged  
Damn! I wanted to provide a response not covered, but T&T did (but not in his first reply... not that I'm scoring...).
It hinges on your:
hawks wrote:
When connecting a relay or low drawing sensor or....
There is often no need nor reason to fuse such loads because either they draw too little current anyhow, else by their nature, for them to go "hi current" means they have already failed.
Such loads include hi-impedance loads such as (many) sensors or meters, voltmeters etc.
So hence the only fusing applicable is for its cable protection.
EG - of running off a 1mA meter off 10A "meter" fuse, run a 10A cable to the meter.
However, since this if often undesirable, use (say) a 5mA fuse and a 5mA cable....
But since this is often impractical or plain stupid, or simply unreliable (extra fuse contacts etc), use a resistor in place of the fuse.
(EG - a sensor's series resistor could be 100x its load resistance for a 1% reading error. The resistor's size needs to be V**2/R - eg, 15x15/R assuming a 15V short circuit at the sensor end. I use 16V else 15V as a max 12 Volt system voltage.)
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
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Posted: April 12, 2010 at 3:55 AM / IP Logged  
The ONLY time you wouldn't fuse is 1) remote start feeds (not the 5amp line) to ignition where the ignition constant(s) are fuse protected, e.g. Honda, some Toyotas etc. 2) Tapping hazards for Euro cars, (we use amber indicators instead of lights, also OZ Oldspark), source from constant to haz switch, lastly, type A pos locking systems where there is a factory actuator power feed in the same loom, e.g. VW Golf/Jetta Mk lll.
oldspark 
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Posted: April 12, 2010 at 6:11 AM / IP Logged  
And as per my reply?
Or are we clashing.... dear buddy Howie.....??
(I did omit non-fusing of self-fusing circuits - eg, when taking THIN wires off the battery etc....)
KPierson 
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Posted: April 12, 2010 at 12:48 PM / IP Logged  

I have a slightly different way of looking at this, but it involved knowledge and not "playing it safe".

If, say, you need power behind a door for a window module and the stock window power wire is sufficient in size and current, I would NOT fuse the window module in the door.  The last thing you want is to have to pull the door panel off to replace a fuse, when it would be much easier to replace the window fuse in the OEM fuse box if something were to happen.  Now, as a general rule of thumb when doing this, it is imperative that NO vital circuit is tapped (ie headlights, tail lights, ignition, etc).  You can use ACC circuits like windows, door locks, radio, etc, but nothing that, if the OEM fuse would blow, would leave the car unsafe or unable to operate.

A common place to do this is on RF changers (do people still insall those?).  They would always come with their own fuse and we would always connect their 12v and switched wires to the OEM wires behind the radio.  We would always cut the fuses off because the OEM fuses were sufficent and easy to access.

The remote starts we installed came with fuses inline to the power wires and I NEVER removed the fuses.  If something happened to the remote start wiring you wouldn't want to rely on the OEM fuses, because if they blew the car wouldn't operate, and that would be bad!

Kevin Pierson
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