Connectors or Solder

Home / the12volt's Install Bay / General Discussion / Connectors or Solder (

Topic Closed)

Welcome Guest :)

Members

Poll Question: What do you installer’s use ?
Poll Choice	Votes	Poll Statistics
Solder & Electrical Tape	41	[41.00%]
Solder & Heat Shrink ( when applicable )	15	[15.00%]
3M T-Taps	8	[8.00%]
3M Scotchlok	0	[0.00%]
Other	36	[36.00%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

< Prev Page Next Page > < Prev Topic Next Topic >

superchuckles

Copper - Posts: 89

Joined: December 29, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: January 02, 2004 at 4:45 AM / IP Logged

from an electrical integrity point of view, a clean soldered joint (with flux if necessary) is the best connection - but it's a waste of time if you're not using heat shrink tubing. however, having been in the auto industry for over 20 years now, i can tell you what does and doesn't work - scotch locks in my opinion (and everyone who i know that knows their salt about electrical) should be illegal in the united states - especially on a car where things don't just sit static day in and day out. i would rather twist wires into a pigtail and use masking tape (and i would too) than use a scotch lock. not only do they make one of the worst electrical connections known to man, but they often damage the origional wire you're tapping into. go to a circuit city - go to an auto electrical shop that does fleet work for police, etc - i can tell you from first hand experience what they use - stereo shops 90% of the time use crimp caps for all their connections, the other 10% of the time they use butt connectors on wire joints that are just straight splices. obviously lugs and spade ends, etc are just going to be the same thing (a crimp connector) with a lug end on the other side, or spade end on it, etc. some people don't like butt connectors, and will say they don't provide a good electrical connection over time - well, maybe - if it wasn't crimped on good in the first place, and you are using the lowest possible grade butt connector - but even then, i've seen them exposed to all the elements for 10+ years without a problem 1. for the neatest and fastest installs, nice clean and good connections, get yourself some snapon crimpers, and buy in bulk your butt splices - the good ones have the slim tube insulation on them where even the yellow (12g) butt connectors are only just barely larger than the wire itself. the cheap-o butt splices have really big ends and bulk up if you have to do 10 or more wires in a bundle. where bulk isn't a problem or you have a lot of wires tying to a single point, nothing beats crimp caps - plus they're easy to remove when crimped right in the first place. i can install a stereo in half the time using crimp caps and butt connectors that it takes someone to solder every connection, then heat shrink the tubing over all the splices, and i guarantee that the quality of the electrical connection even over a 5 or 10 year period would at most only be detectable with perhaps an oscilloscope at extreem settings.

Focusedonsound

Copper - Posts: 95

Joined: June 13, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: January 02, 2004 at 1:05 PM / IP Logged

Superchuckels please don't take this the wrong way.

I understand that everyone is entitled to their opinion. And trust me when I say that I am by far the furthest thing from a professional but I do know this.

Just because its quicker....doesn't mean its the right way to do it. There will always be a number of different ways to solve a problem and the person who gets there the quickest isn't always the most successful.

There are many reasons why I will NEVER (I say that extreamly strongly) bring any of my cars to any local sound shop. And that is becuase of the quality of service you receive.

I don't know about you but I work very hard for all the things that I have. And I am not about to loose it to a shop that takes 10 min to install a head unit becasue they wanted to cut corners and use crimp connectors. That is the # 1 reason why I know I am here and I think a lot of other enthusiests are here at this forum. We want to learn the correct ways of doing things. And we like to do them ourselvs.

I would much rather sit down and take the extra however long it takes to solder my connections give them a tug make sure that they are secure. Heat shrink them/tape them and leave the connection knowing that the only think thats going to break that connection is just short of crushing the car.

just my $0.02

Search for other posts by Focusedonsound

superchuckles

Copper - Posts: 89

Joined: December 29, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: January 03, 2004 at 3:58 AM / IP Logged

Focusedonsound - it's ok, i don't take it the wrong way - but perhaps i should clarify what i mean by fastest. what i mean is, if i added every single install i've ever done, with every single return (and i mean return as in even if it was taken somewhere else) that was because of a problem with a connection i made, i can guarantee there is nobody, and i mean nobody - no world class record holder of soldering can even come close to touching the time it takes to use crimp connectors. that said, i have nothing against soldering. quite to the contrary, i would wager that i can solder better than the majority of people who do it daily - how many people do you know that can consistantly desolder and reflow ultra fine pitch surface mount chips without using expensive rework equipment, AND without damaging either chips or circuit boards? nothing beats solder for the very best electrical connection, strength, and it ends with the smallest connection (bulk wise). but - why go thru the trouble of making sure you do all that right, then just throwing it right out the window using electrical tape? if you're going to take that much time to do it right, for gods sake, do it right all the way and use heat shrink tubing and be a 100% professional instead of being a 50% professional. if you do electrical for a living, you can't afford to do solder/heat shrink because your costs will exceed your income - period. i know there's a lot of butcher shops out there, but - they wont stay in business either if all they do is butcher. i get almost all my work from referrals, and i get a LOT of it thank you very much.

Overcranked23

Copper - Posts: 67

Joined: December 21, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: January 03, 2004 at 8:22 AM / IP Logged

What the heck is a T-lok???

I dont really care to give an opinion thus it has been shared in the past post numerous times I will say that according to the MECP study guide that a poorly crimped connect can and will cause voltage loss and I have been known to cut wire thickness down to fit the in the But conector! I know I know but if the wire is a to big of a gauge anyway it dosen't matter!!

Just solder your lazy if you don't and I am lazy

don't fowl the track

livewire 1096

Member - Posts: 13

Joined: December 19, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: January 03, 2004 at 5:22 PM / IP Logged

you guys will beat a horse. a bad crimp causes voltage drops. bad soldering causes voltage drop. time and mother nature cause voltage drop. crimp or solder, the key is to do it right. use good crimpers(aka staking tool) or sweet the solder into the wire correctly and you will have a good conection. if you don't you have problems. no matter what yo do you'll never be time and mothernature. all conections in the mobile environment break down over time. thats why its so important to do right the first time. the issue isn't whats faster or better. it's which one you are able to right in the shortest time. right being more important than the time. now can we let it go and move on to another horse to whip. (maybe like, less filing/taste great)

livewire

Connectors or Solder - Page 4 -- posted image.

mikeshonda750

Copper - Posts: 105

Joined: December 03, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: January 03, 2004 at 5:43 PM / IP Logged

It is a never ending debate... please reffer to my post above with the pic in it.... I would also like to know what a t-tap is... is it the scotch lok look alike that instead of having a blade in it that makes your connection, has a small screw in it that you tighten down into it? bah who cares.. solder/butt connectors/poke&tape/scotch lok's whatever, it doesent really matter, the butt connector guys will defend butt connectors regardless... same as the solder guys/poke&tape/ext. so it doesent really matter.

Im curious though, while it is a great idea to use heatshrink on a soldered joint, what is the problem with electrical tape? Take a look through any professional/union electrician's tool belt or truck, 99% of the time you will find rolls and rolls of electrical tape(among other things such as wire nuts). Ya cant tell me professionals have been doing an unprofessional job for the past 100 years???

btw... cutting the wire size down (actully snipping strands of it off) so you can connect 2+ wires in the same end of a butt connector is a NO NO. thats why using butt connectors is such a bad thing, you cant take a 10gauge butt connector and expect to tie 2 10gauge wires into 1 end of it... and if you use a bigger connector, the other side is now tooo big for the single 10gauge wire... my theory on why people have problems with soldering is because they dont have the proper equipment avaliable and simply dont know how to solder correctly

livewire 1096

Member - Posts: 13

Joined: December 19, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: January 03, 2004 at 7:39 PM / IP Logged

a t-tap is only a slightly improved scotch lock. it's one peice that snaps aroond the wire piercing it. then you conect to using a spade connector in it's socket.

pro electricians use mostly solid wire(which is one reason they can use wire nuts), don't solder and don't install in the mobile environment. so don't bring them into this little debate. it's apples and oranges.

poke&tape is b.s. they should be assamed. like i said before you can't beat time and mothernature, so why give them a head start with poke and tape. talk about potential for voltage drop.

i'm sad now the ravens lost. go green bay.

livewire

mikeshonda750

Copper - Posts: 105

Joined: December 03, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: January 03, 2004 at 8:04 PM / IP Logged

Your right, they do work with solid wire and dont install in a mobile enviroment, thats why they can use wire nuts, yet you advocate the use of butt connectors? Im sorry, maybe you arent.... Im still wondering, why is electrical tape a bad thing? something that has been used in the mobile enviroment for years and years sucessfully. Comparing apples to apples, instead of asking that union/pro electrician... ask a professional auto mechanic... no some young punk who just got his papers... but someone who has had to take the ASE tests a few times... while solder+heatshrink is the preffered method among all of us, where heatshrink isnt an option doesent mean soldering shouldnt be

superchuckles

Copper - Posts: 89

Joined: December 29, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: January 03, 2004 at 9:42 PM / IP Logged

first off, an electrician uses tape only to do one of a few things usually - 1, to temporarily insulate something, 2 (and this is by far and away the most common use) to mark the proper phase of the wire) and 3, (this is very close to number 2) to bundle wires together tightly for a "pull". very very seldom are there instances where an electrician (commercial or residental) will use tape on a connection. they will almost always use wire nuts, because that's what code calls for. now, getting that out of the way, the reason i prefer not to use tape in a car is the high amount of heat that happens in summer in a car. i live in california, and when it gets to 110 outside, it's 180 in your car. after 1 year, the tape has the sticking power of old transmission fluid on the bottom of a car. the best built harnesses use heat shrink, for several reasons, probably the main one being that it is a permanent insulator as close as you're going to get to the origional insulation on the wire. that's why i've said that if you have the time to go ahead and solder your joints professionally, why do a second rate job insulating it? solder is permanent, why not make you insulation job equally permanent. that's all.

Fyrhwk1

Member - Posts: 27

Joined: December 27, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: January 04, 2004 at 2:21 AM / IP Logged

superchuckles wrote:

go to a circuit city - go to an auto electrical shop that does fleet work for police, etc - i can tell you from first hand experience what they use - stereo shops 90% of the time use crimp caps for all their connections, the other 10% of the time they use butt connectors on wire joints that are just straight splices.

I can't say anything for the other shops, but I've been working for circuit city for a good amount of time now, and unless we're crimping a spade or ring terminal on to a wire for a connection to a speaker terminal/amp/etc we solder. It doesn't look bad for me to hardwire a radio up and take an extra 5 minutes to solder/tape everything (and it only does add about 5 minutes, I tried caps in the exact same car doing a similar radio, both came to us with the harness missing). It does however look bad if a car comes back with a pissed off owner and a repair bill that he got screwed on because one of my connections came loose, shorted and blew a fuse. I'm not knocking crimps, I just solder and tape more, its worth the time if you're doing good installs IMO. Heatshrink is another matter, that does add a good bit of time, at least in my experience, and I can't say ive ever heard of tape coming off even in heat, assuming you tape properly in the first place.

< Prev Page Next Page >

Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Search the12volt.com

Follow the12volt.com

Disclaimer: *All information on this site ( the12volt.com ) is provided "as is" without any warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, including but not limited to fitness for a particular use. Any user assumes the entire risk as to the accuracy and use of this information. Please verify all wire colors and diagrams before applying any information.