What to do about warranty

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Sad, little man

Copper - Posts: 125

Joined: January 28, 2005

Posted: July 14, 2005 at 9:35 PM / IP Logged

I see what you're saying about protecting the dealers. Perhaps then authorized dealers should be allowed to sell the units without installing them. They make the money on selling the alarm, but not on installing if the customer can do it themselves. That I think would be reasonable. As far as installing goes. I'm not clueless about auto electrics, and I don't claim to know as much as professional installers do. But I have enough knowledge to do things right if I take my time while installing it. I basically just want to save some money and have the alarm installed with the same care I do everything with on my own vehicle.

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auex

Platinum - Posts: 5,041

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Joined: December 23, 2002

Location: Arizona, United States

Posted: July 14, 2005 at 9:41 PM / IP Logged

The contract the dealer sings with DEI prevents them from selling without installation. This also prevents authorized dealers from selling online.

Certified Security Specialist

Always check info with a digital multimeter.

I promise to be good.

Tell Darwin I sent you.

I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.

us_test

Copper - Posts: 200

Joined: May 21, 2005

Location: United States

Posted: July 15, 2005 at 12:53 PM / IP Logged

Compustar:

"Some states do not allow limitations on how long an implied warranty will last or the exclusion or limitation on how long an implied warranty will last or the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages. This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may also have other rights, which vary State to State."

My point is the warranty for the PRODUCT and should not differ based on who buys it, from where and who installs it. The engine analogy doesn't fit IMO. Compustar makes the alarm (this being your engine)...if it is defective they need to fix it no matter where you get it from. After all it is the same alarm (your not buying a different engine) regardless if it is E-bay or a Compustar dealer. I'm glad to see that a lot of states protect the buyer (even speaking to so degree of accidental damage).

Another issue is that there is no stadardize across the board system of testing the dealers to make sure that even they know what they are doing. I know most delers are good but we hear a lot about techs who have 3 years of experience and use T-taps on wires and such.

If they want to limit warranty, no problem, create 2 products one for consumer (and offer no warranty to the consumer product) and one for the dealer. Obviously there will have to be a considerable price reduction to the consumer version since the company does not have the overhead on this product.

(1) Kenwood Excelon Head Unit KDC-X589 (24 bit Burr Brown DAC, 3 X 4 volt RCA).

(1) RF Punch 250A2 - running the components.

(1) Hifonics 6.5" Atlas Components (18db crossovers).

auex

Platinum - Posts: 5,041

Joined: December 23, 2002

Location: Arizona, United States

Posted: July 16, 2005 at 12:46 AM / IP Logged

us_test wrote:

Compustar:

Not to debate but a question. In DEI's case there is no warranty, implied or otherwise, if bought through an unauthorized source. If Compustar has the same type of statement/limitations (they are not big in AZ so I don't have much experience with them), is the warranty statement void? I am no lawyer, but I play one on the internet.

Again DEI has 3 lines available to the public as stated before. Also dealing with repairs it is more often install/connection related to problems as opposed to actual equipment failure.

As far as the engine analogy, it was more along the lines of you bought a product somewhere that the manufacturer doesn't allow to be sold, installed it yourself, it either didn't work or was damaged during install, and then you try to get warranty to repair/replace. The whole engine part was because he was a mechanic and probably has had someone try something stupid like that to him or his shop. The other part to this is that the manufacturer cannot guarantee the condition of the alarm if buying from an unauthorized seller. For all they know it could be b-stock or refurbished gear which carries little to no warranty. There is no way to guarantee what the seller is selling/shipping the consumer.

PS. Again, warranty on product is actually rarely used on quality equipment(DEI 555R/L excluded, about the only faulty piece I have seen from DEI on more then 1 ocassion). As long as you are competent and install the alarm correctly this should be a minor issue. If it is more of an issue then you would like then I would recommend you stay away from brands that have rigid guidelines concerning their warranty process.

PSS. Sorry for the novel. This is actually turning into an intellectual discussion, which is kinda rare here(think audiobahn, sony, bose, AVIC, etc...).

Certified Security Specialist

Always check info with a digital multimeter.

I promise to be good.

Tell Darwin I sent you.

I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.

us_test

Copper - Posts: 200

Joined: May 21, 2005

Location: United States

Posted: July 16, 2005 at 9:36 AM / IP Logged

The way I understand it is as follows :

incidental

adjective

Not part of the real or essential nature of a thing:

adscititious, adventitious, supervenient.

So if an internet dealer is incidentally selling the car alarm over the Internet the consumer still has a warrany because they are protected by state laws. The selling method is incidental, it is just that a method, it is not part of the real or essential nature of the thing (the selling method is not a part of the alarm it is a distribution method).

con·se·quen·tial

adj.

Following as an effect, result, or conclusion; consequent.

So I can cross a few wires on the alarm fry it and some states will still protect my warranty

Section 108 of the FEDERAL Magnuson-Moss warranty act prevents "Tie-in" agreements.

"Tie-In Sales" Provisions

Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.

In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the Great American Maintenance Company, Inc., voids this warranty.

I think the companies use this piece here below to try to get away with voiding consumer warranty. But an alarm is still a tnagible property used for personal use so it would be covered.

Finally, the Act does not apply to warranties on products sold for resale or for commercial purposes. The Act covers only warranties on consumer products. This means that only warranties on tangible property normally used for personal, family, or household purposes are covered. (This includes property attached to or installed on real property.) Note that applicability of the Act to a particular product does not, however, depend upon how an individual buyer will use it.

Got my info from here: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.htm#understanding

(1) Kenwood Excelon Head Unit KDC-X589 (24 bit Burr Brown DAC, 3 X 4 volt RCA).

(1) RF Punch 250A2 - running the components.

(1) Hifonics 6.5" Atlas Components (18db crossovers).

us_test

Copper - Posts: 200

Joined: May 21, 2005

Location: United States

Posted: July 16, 2005 at 11:01 AM / IP Logged

bobk - read up on the subject a bit more. I'm sorry I forgot that DEI was above the law (silly me).

I can prove my facts with research, can you?

What they do is a "tie-in" agreement (buy from dealer or no warranty). "They have the right to do that" maybe in China but not in the US. What to do about warranty - Page 3 -- posted image.

What to do about warranty - Page 3 -- posted image.

It is so simple I don't see how you don't get it. The law even protects you from incidental damage (I don't thik that is fair but this is the way it is). Please, please come back with some evidence and links to support your claim (I doubt that you can).

Perhaps you know more than the Federal Trade Commission about warranty laws (after all what do they know).

I like your posts you try to knock me but you don't have any backing, no facts, nothing, just empty letters you

hit on your keyboard.

I was personally affected by this issue when I purchased an alarm from Asian Wolf which came partially defective out of the box. So I'm doing the research, I don't type empty token words just because I can type on the keyboard. Everything I said was researched and backed up with evidence galore.

The companies can and will write whatever they want in their warranty (to their advantage of course) and they can do that. They will however loose when it comes to going up against the warranty laws.

What they do (buy from a dealer otherwise the warranty is void). Is like Ford selling "You can only buy a FORD from a FORD certfified dealership".

I think a lot of this is supported by Stereo Shops also. It is the fear that one day eveyone in the world will install heir own alarm and they'll go out of business. I hope one day to have a shop but I will NEVER act scared like some shop owners do, scared of people doing their own installs and them going out of business. If your shop was good you wouldn't have to worry about a few DIY installlers (well I guess most shop owners are insecure and scared of this).

(1) Kenwood Excelon Head Unit KDC-X589 (24 bit Burr Brown DAC, 3 X 4 volt RCA).

(1) RF Punch 250A2 - running the components.

(1) Hifonics 6.5" Atlas Components (18db crossovers).

us_test

Copper - Posts: 200

Joined: May 21, 2005

Location: United States

Posted: July 16, 2005 at 6:40 PM / IP Logged

bobk wrote:

Take DEI to court and see who wins. Post the results for all to see good or bad, I am betting it will be bad.

. I agree 100% that the outcome would be bad if I took DEI to court for a Skytek Galaxy 5100 rebranded FM 2009 v2 alarm sold to me by AsianWolf. What to do about warranty - Page 3 -- posted image.

LOL

I was speaking of warranties in general regardless of companies. Take for example the bold and BS statement Asian Wolf makes when they say they'll void the warranty if it is not installed by a shop (even if your friend which works at NASA does the install) but they'll cover it if a shop does it and fries the brain (they actually say fries the brain....this is in bold letters). In that case why not cover it even if someone does their own install? Do they think that the chances of a shop making a mistake are lower? Perhaps....but the odds are not that much higher...(with all the T-Taps stories I hear from friends who have had their alarms done shops)...

Most of the DIY installer does research and asks questions from experts (like the ones on this site)...This site is a great resource for 12V....Asian Wolf does target the DIY installer here is why: they have a basic alarm install tutorial (why would you have this.....a security installer knows this stuff in their sleep (the basics)....then they have a link to the12volt.com (again why....most shops have DirecTech or Omega Disk or whatever you use for wiring information on cars).

(1) Kenwood Excelon Head Unit KDC-X589 (24 bit Burr Brown DAC, 3 X 4 volt RCA).

(1) RF Punch 250A2 - running the components.

(1) Hifonics 6.5" Atlas Components (18db crossovers).

us_test

Copper - Posts: 200

Joined: May 21, 2005

Location: United States

Posted: July 16, 2005 at 7:10 PM / IP Logged

Try not to drink before posting...half the stuff you say makes no sense at all (take DEI to court when I never said anything of that nature...I was mearley comenting on their warranty.

(1) Kenwood Excelon Head Unit KDC-X589 (24 bit Burr Brown DAC, 3 X 4 volt RCA).

(1) RF Punch 250A2 - running the components.

(1) Hifonics 6.5" Atlas Components (18db crossovers).

Sad, little man

Copper - Posts: 125

Joined: January 28, 2005

Posted: July 16, 2005 at 7:57 PM / IP Logged

So, uh, is the 2WSS-A a solid system or should I look at their others? What to do about warranty - Page 3 -- posted image.

metaverse

Copper - Posts: 210

Joined: June 13, 2002

Location: United States

Posted: July 16, 2005 at 9:47 PM / IP Logged

Just buy an autopage RS-855... Compustar always starts fights.. lol j/k

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